Bar string retainer height?

[emblymouse]

My question is what should the height of a retainer be in relation to the nut slot?

I just got a Jazz style 5'er that has a single bar string retainer across all the strings. It is positioned right behind the nut (half inch-ish). The B string side was higher than the G side. I'm assuming this needed to be leveled and have screwed it down to match the other end. Right now the height of the retainer puts the strings slightly below the nut slots. The B and E seem like they really torqued with a lot of pressure from this angle this makes. Is there a rule of thumb?

[Ewo]

My Lakie 5s have those. Can't say I've ever had any worry about 'em.

Best I can figure is that you want the string retainer just low enough to keep the strings in their slots so they don't rattle on open notes. That'd mean the retainer is higher on the low string, since it's a much bigger gauge.

[emblymouse]

So, does this look right?

[megafiddle]

It might just be the photo, but it looks like it's causing the low string to take off
from the zero fret at an upward angle compared to the other strings. Check that
the low string isn't sitting higher than the others at the 1st fret. You may want to
raise the bar a little.

[testing1two]

That bar is awfully close to the nut. My Sadowsky uses the same type of retainer but it's 3/4" past the nut. Yours is creating a very steep break angle that is largely unnecessary IMO and causing the upward bow in the b-string.

[emblymouse]

Yeah, I've raised the whole thing and favored the B side a bit higher. I've never paid close attention to what these look like installed. This did seem awfully close to the nut though. Would I be better served with maybe 2-2 string retainers installed farther up and leave the B at it's own natural angle?

[testing1two]

There's no reason you couldn't move the bar 1/2" further away from the nut if you don't mind the two visible holes that will be left behind.

One more thing: It's hard to tell from the photos but your bar looks like it's on upside down. Mine has a slight radius that follows the radius of the fingerboard and the flat side faces up. There are countersinks in the flat side so the screws are flush with the top.

[emblymouse]

You're right, upside down!
I've got 1/2" total to the B tuner so I'd be moving 1/4" at most. Do you think that will make enough difference?

[testing1two]

Here's what mine looks like:

[walterw]

just like that!

low enough to hold the strings behind the nut and keep them from rattling, but no lower.

also, that third picture is a perfect example of why you need to "seat" strings after you put them on, by pressing down on either side of the contact points (nut and saddle) to get rid of that curve and create a defined sharp angle, so the string is dead-straight along its vibrating length.

[testing1two]

Originally Posted by emblymouse

You're right, upside down!
I've got 1/2" total to the B tuner so I'd be moving 1/4" at most. Do you think that will make enough difference?

to answer your question it looks like your retainer is about 1/2" from the nut so moving it another 1/4" should give you a better break angle. And as Walter said set it so it's just low enough to hold the strings behind the nut, but no lower.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by emblymouse

You're right, upside down!
I've got 1/2" total to the B tuner so I'd be moving 1/4" at most. Do you think that will make enough difference?

you shouldn't have to move the bar (leaving holes in the headstock); just raise it enough that it holds the strings down without severely bending them.

you might need to scrounge some longer screws, though.

[emblymouse]

Thanks guys. Sometimes this simple stuff escapes me!

Here's the rest of the bass just 'cuz -