Bass keeps coming outta tune (and many other problems)

[EssJay]

About 2 weeks ago I got myself a set of flatwounds to put onto my fretless bass and paid $50AUD to get it set up at the local shop and I hadn't really noticed any major problems until recently when I've tried doing some recording.

The strings are constantly coming out of tune. Within seconds too, not gradually over a day or two.

If I try and play anything past the 10th fret on all 4 strings he note just buzzes out instead of actually making the sound of the note. The action seems to have been lowered very carelessly, they didn't even lower the pickups with it. Even the lightest touch makes the string hit the pickup and makes a hideous and loud thud noise.

When I play the E string the D string starts buzzing quietly (I'm not even touching it), but loud enough to be noticed, when I'm using my overdrive pedal it sounds like a harmonic note is being played.

Instead of placing my finger on the line where the fret was (as is my understanding of what is done with a fretless) I have to place it before it, as if I wereplaying a fretted bass, which has made it damn near impossible for me to be able to get the right notes alot of the time.

[rant]This isn't even the first problem I've had with this shop, I took my 5 string in to get a problem with it fixed (tuned out a pot had snapped of the electronics board (active pickups)), got it back home, plugged it in and noticed it sounded like the battery, which was brand new, was dying or I had my overdrive pedal on. Took it back and they fixed that, but then told me that the board inside would need replacing and would cost $65AUD alone for the part. Hell, this places marks the price of bass strings up by $20. So I've now decided that I'm not going to be taking my basses or guitars there to be fixed again and I'm gonna buy strings and stuff off the net.[/rant]


I feel like I payed $50 for someone who doesn't know what they're doing to string my bass and tell me "yes, it is set up properly."
So I've decided that I'm gonna try and fix the biggest problem at this moment, it coming out of tune. But I've got no idea what this could be, how would I be able to fix this myself?

[stflbn]

Take it back. Complain very loudly. Make them fix it. Demand a partial refund for your time and grief. You should not leave their place with your bass until it's setup exactly as you prefer it to be.

No excuses.


If you 'try' to fix it and then later take it back to them they have less reason to fix it and they can blame the problems on you.

[EssJay]

Originally Posted by stflbn

Take it back. Complain very loudly. Make them fix it. Demand a partial refund for your time and grief. You should not leave their place with your bass until it's setup exactly as you prefer it to be.

No excuses.


If you 'try' to fix it and then later take it back to them they have less reason to fix it and they can blame the problems on you.

I think I'll give them a call today, once I've figured out a way of turning thousand upon thousands of swear words into a sentence lol. So far "I'm really unhappy with the way it was set up, I've had nothing but problems with it since and I'd like to bring it back in" seems to be leading the pack.
The only thing I can see being a problem is that it's been nearly a month since I took it in (I only just checked my phone calendar to see when abouts), I haven't messed around with it (I don't have any know how on the bass set up process anyhow, so I don't bother trying it), so I don't know how that will go down.
But once I've called up and know what's happening I'll post the option I've got left.

[Blind Rat]

Where in New South Wales do you live?if you are near Coffs Harbour I could have a look at it for you.

[tcbass4ever]

yes i also agree thats ridiculous,dont ever leave with out playing your bass,actually
they the way my guy does it is he will ask how i want it set up and when he is done he
hands me my bass and asks hows this,from what you wrote whoever set up your bass
does not know whats hes doing and he doesnt even check his own work,i dont think i would want him touching my bass.not to mention it sounds like you payed an awful amount of money.im in illinois usa and my guy sets my bass up puts on a fesh set of dr low beams and charges 20.00.definitely get your money back and take your bass somewhere else.

[EssJay]

Originally Posted by Blind Rat

Where in New South Wales do you live?if you are near Coffs Harbour I could have a look at it for you.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm down in the south western area of Sydney, Picton (you might know the area if ya know your wines) and it's a bit of a travel. But once again, thanks anyways.

Originally Posted by tcbass4ever

yes i also agree thats ridiculous,dont ever leave with out playing your bass,actually
they the way my guy does it is he will ask how i want it set up and when he is done he
hands me my bass and asks hows this,from what you wrote whoever set up your bass
does not know whats hes doing and he doesnt even check his own work,i dont think i would want him touching my bass.not to mention it sounds like you payed an awful amount of money.im in illinois usa and my guy sets my bass up puts on a fesh set of dr low beams and charges 20.00.definitely get your money back and take your bass somewhere else.

I had a quick play of the bass in the shop but I didn't really mess around much. And I have a very faint recollection of him saying he sets the action by sight, which could explain why the higher frets just buzz out.
And yeah, it's a lot more cash than I'd like to pay. Just using a currency converter you're paying about $26AUD to get the bass set up and I'm assuming you're including strings in that. This shop charges $80 for a set of d'addario lights for 5 string bass, which seems to be about $60USD and then the further $50 for the stringing/set up/intonation/action which is aparently $37USD, so I'd pay $130AUD for strings and set up which would end up being about $98 over there in the US


I tried calling the shop earlier today but the guy who does the set up and repairs and crap wasn't in, so I've gotta call back tomorrow morning at an ungodly hour in the morning (10am lol). I've decided that if he's going to fix it up free of charge I'm happy to let him, but if he makes any snide or stupid remarks that annoy or piss me off then I'm going to demand a partial refund.

[Pilgrim]

The string tuning problem means they installed the strings wrong. Probably didn't bend the end 90 degrees and insert it into the hole in the center of the tuner...so the strings are slipping. If true, that's a very, very bad sign because it's a beginner mistake.

But I think you need to take it back and firmly but in a businesslike fashion and tell them you need a re-do. You are right that yelling at them and being disruptive won't create anything but antagonism on their part.

[EssJay]

Just got off the phone with the store, I've gotta write down a list of the problems that I've been having so he can sort them out and it's going to be free of charge. I'm gonna take it back in within the hour and hopefully have it back by wednesday or thursday. Then the store shall never again touch an instrument of mine.

He did tell me that since it was formerly a fretted bass that has had the frets taken out it will always give problems, I don't know very much but to me that just kinda sounded like he was talking out his ass, because the bass has been a fretless since 2005 when I was in 11th grade and it has never had any problems of any variety.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by EssJay

He did tell me that since it was formerly a fretted bass that has had the frets taken out it will always give problems

There is no reason why a defretted bass should give any more problems than a fretless one. Assuming that the defret was done well of course.

[Relic]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

There is no reason why a defretted bass should give any more problems than a fretless one. Assuming that the defret was done well of course.

Actually, there are some who believe that the removal of frets can cause the neck to be more prone to warpage and twisting as the frets themselves help to stabilize the neck. Once removed, the wood is more likely to warp as the empty slots where the frets were are now a weak spot that a factory fretless, or fretted bass doesn't have.

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by Relic

Actually, there are some who believe that the removal of frets can cause the neck to be more prone to warpage and twisting as the frets themselves help to stabilize the neck. Once removed, the wood is more likely to warp as the empty slots where the frets were are now a weak spot that a factory fretless, or fretted bass doesn't have.

yep, and now I see that many people just fill the slots with wood putty

[Relic]

Originally Posted by joeyl

yep, and now I see that many people just fill the slots with wood putty

yeah that's a big mistake.. I've seen some done really really nicely with strips of maple or even ebony inlaid into the slots, then finished over. That would be a tedious job but I'd think it would be worth it in the end if you really like the neck.

[xgator4u]

Oh yeah man, you paid this cat a hundred bucks for a set of strings and a set up. Bet your bippy he would do it properly if it were me.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by EssJay

He did tell me that since it was formerly a fretted bass that has had the frets taken out it will always give problems, I don't know very much but to me that just kinda sounded like he was talking out his ass, because the bass has been a fretless since 2005 when I was in 11th grade and it has never had any problems of any variety.

If it was defretted properly, that's B.S.

However, if the fret lines were not filled with a material at least as dense as the rosewood, then I could understand if the neck tended to bow forward slightly over time - but in 4 years it wiould be well past that stage.

I don't believe a word he's telling you. Sounds like he's already lining up excuses for ongoing problems.

[EssJay]

Just realised I forgot to post back, I took the bass in and told the guy that I will be needing it by wednesday or thursday at 1pm at the latest because of a band practice (otherwise it's gonna be either cancelled or spending the time at the computer working on songs with the drummer). But I'm gonna give it a looong playing in the store.

Originally Posted by xgator4u

Oh yeah man, you paid this cat a hundred bucks for a set of strings and a set up. Bet your bippy he would do it properly if it were me.

I didn't buy my strings from there, found this pretty good place in Melbourne called Bass Centre and I ordered online from them. The prices were quite good and they were fast, I put the deposit in the bank on monday and got the strings on wednesday.

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

If it was defretted properly, that's B.S.

However, if the fret lines were not filled with a material at least as dense as the rosewood, then I could understand if the neck tended to bow forward slightly over time - but in 4 years it wiould be well past that stage.

I don't believe a word he's telling you. Sounds like he's already lining up excuses for ongoing problems.

It wasn't a professional defret, just something me and my mate did one day, but we didn't mess anything up. We did just fill up the gaps with wood putty because there was nothing else at hand at the time, but I am considering digging the putty out and replacing it with something better (would epoxy or whatever it's called do a good job?), otherwise I'm considering calling a luthier to see how much it'd cost to get a new fretboard done.

But if there are any problems with it after this time I'm going to get him to write down what the problems are and how they could be solved so I can post here his opinions and see if anyone else shares my "he doesn't know what he's doing" opinion. And I'll be demanding the partial refund.


Oh, and in response to why it kept going outta tune he said that it could only be a problem caused by the machine head gears slipping. If that is the case then that s.o.b. owes me new machine heads, because they were fine up until he set up the bass in the first place.

[Pilgrim]

All I can say is that I've never had a set of tuners slip. However, if the string ends are inserted into the holes in the tuners and the strings are wrapped properly, then perhaps there is a mechanical problem of some type. Some tiners cn be tightened rather than replaced.

I've heard of wood putty working OK, but that's probably the result of the basic strength of the neck in question. If the neck is bowing forward no matter what you do, then I'd suspect the filling on the defret job. But if you can get it straight, then you most likely don't have a problem.

What I did during my defret job was to buy a craft saw with a blade .022 wide, use it to clean out the fret lines after removing the frets, then at a craft store I bought strips of polystrene that were .020 wide and glued them in with super glue - then trimmed to match the fretboard and sanded lightly. The polystyrene was more dense then the rosewood, so I knew I wasn't weakening the neck. I also wanted visible fret lines, so the white plastic worked well.

But then, I glued back every rosewood chip and the fretboard looked immaculate - I probably spent at least 6 hours on it.

[JLS]

[QUOTE

What I did during my defret job was to buy a craft saw with a blade .022 wide, use it to clean out the fret lines after removing the frets, then at a craft store I bought strips of polystrene that were .020 wide and glued them in with super glue - then trimmed to match the fretboard and sanded lightly. The polystyrene was more dense then the rosewood, so I knew I wasn't weakening the neck. I also wanted visible fret lines, so the white plastic worked well.
[/quote]

Yep! Did the same, on mine.