best intonation technique?

[rich18rich]

People say fret the open strings to compare to the harmonics.
Other people say fret the 12th frets to compare to the harmonics.
I would think that you always fret a string a TINY bit different so the former method works best.
Any thoughts?

[Meyatch]

if your string is tuned correctly the harmonic will always be the same, even if your intonation is terrible. You have to fret the string, that's what you are trying to set.

[PilbaraBass]

Originally Posted by Meyatch

if your string is tuned correctly the harmonic will always be the same, even if your intonation is terrible. You have to fret the string, that's what you are trying to set.

correct...

in fact, if the string is out of tune, the harmonic will always be equally out of tune...

I use harmonic vs. 12th fret...that way I'm comparing the same note, both by the tuner and by the ear...it's amazing how accurate your ear can be...

[dreadheadbass]

Originally Posted by Meyatch

if your string is tuned correctly the harmonic will always be the same, even if your intonation is terrible. You have to fret the string, that's what you are trying to set.

thats how i've always done it you have to take out the inperfection from moving the string down against the fret it might seem like a tiny difference but it makes all the difference

[JTE]

Originally Posted by rich18rich

People say fret the open strings to compare to the harmonics. Other people say fret the 12th frets to compare to the harmonics. I would think that you always fret a string a TINY bit different so the former method works best.
Any thoughts?

A. HOW can you "fret the open string"?!!?!

B. You need to compare the open string to the fretted notes, that's what setting the intonation is! Whether you use the open string or the harmonic at the 12th fret is not really an issue. If your string is in good shape (consistent mass along the length, clean, not worn out) then the octave harmonic at the 12th fret WILL be exactly one octave above the open string. So, whether you use the open string or the 12th fret harmonic as your reference is mostly a matter of preference. I like the harmonic because it's the same pitch as the fretted note I'm trying to correct, and because the higher pitch gives an electronic tuner a higher sampling rate so it's going to be a bit more accurate.

C. The correct way to set intonation is to first play a reference pitch on the open string or the 12th fret harmonic. Then fret the string at the 12th fret. If the open string and/or harmonic are not in tune with the fretted note you need to make the string longer or shorter by moving the bridge saddles. If the fretted note is sharp compared to the reference, that means the string between the 12th fret and the saddle is too short. Move the saddle away from the neck. If the fretted note is flat of the reference pitch, then the string between the 12th fret and the saddle is too long. Move the saddle closer to the neck.

D. There are other ways to work this out. What you're going for is that the notes where you play mostly are as in-tune as you can get them. Some folks compare fretted notes at other frets than the 12th fret. I do the basic settings using the 12th fret and the octave harmonic, but I'll check things at other frets, notably the 5th and 7th frets. Same process, but I'm comparing the fourth and the fifth to the open string. That is, on the E string I'm comparing the A (the fourth of E, which is located at the 5th fret) to the A, and I'll compare the B (the fifth of E) to the open E.

jte

[gimmeagig]

I actually go up to beyond the 12th fret to make sure the notes stay in tune.

[JTE]

There's valid arguments for checking things in different areas. For example, if you're one of those "no money above the fifth fret" players, making sure it's as accurate as possible in the first five or seven frets without regard to what happens at the 12th fret makes sense.

jte

[kraigo]

I try to balance getting the 12th fret vs. harmonic close and the 19th fret vs. harmonic close. The 12th fret is higher priority. I tend to use the whole lowest octave of the neck, but mostly the lower notes. Still I make enough use of the upper notes that I don't want to totally disregard them.

Lower action, lighter tough, fretting just behind the fret, lighter strings and fairly flat relief all help me get decent intonation up and down the neck. With a five string, I'm thrilled if I can get the B string's 15th fret D (and above) into the same timezone as the rest of the bass. And I never even actually use the B string up that high. I don't really venture above the E string's C at the eighth fret when I'm performing for that matter.

KO

[staindbass]

many people are confused. just because your guitar is perfectly intonated, does not mean it PLAYS IN TUNE. too many variables, finger pressure (do u play on the frets or push the string down the the fretboard wood? ectect) you cannot push perfectly straight down on a string, there is always some side to side bending microscopically. yup, intonate your bass with the traditional methods. get it real close to perfect. now, play a D on your A string, and a B on your E string ect. most times the string reads sharp for a second or two, the vibration actually stretches the string a bit if you hit it hard.(ever notice your string moves in a figure 8 that spins, not in a circle like you might think. hitting certain notes under a flourescent light wil allow you to see it. (thats cuz the light goes on and off 60 times a second, and at certain notes will strobe the string) so anyways, some of you guys basses might ring right on the fretted notes. most may not. if you dont? tune the fretted note so it reads right. for rock bass u mostly play below the 7th fret, so who cares if its perfectly in tune at the 12th fret if u only go up there once in awhile. i am advocating doing somthing wrong to make it come out right. all this applies maybe more to me than others, i tune down (b string is @ a flat) and everything goes more out of whack. no frets, however accurate the cutting of the slots ,installation, is perfect in spacing. so u need to tailor around that to get the outcome you desire. tune precisely where you play mostly. sounds crazy, but its worth the 5 min to see if it works with your setup. johnny a staind

[Solarmist]

Originally Posted by Meyatch

if your string is tuned correctly the harmonic will always be the same, even if your intonation is terrible. You have to fret the string, that's what you are trying to set.

+1 - Exactly

Intonation is properly set when the 12th fret note and the 12th fret harmonic are exactly the same note. This is the center point of the scale and the most accurate way of setting a standard scale length. With the harmonic note as the standard, if the fretted note is flat move the bridge saddle forward toward the headstock to decrease the string length. If the fretted note is sharp, move it back away from the headstock to increase the string length intonation adjustments.

[lonote]

I use the harmonic at the 12th fret and the fretted note at the 12th fret and get them to agree and I do the same at the 19th fret. If I can't get them to agree, I split the difference.

[rich18rich]

thanks all. It's pretty important to me to, at least start out, as "in tune" as possible.
//:just ignore the commas, seemed confusing without 'em

[SteveD]

While we are at it, the trick is to remember "flat-forward." (As posted above if your harmonic is in tune and the 12th fret note is flat, move the saddle forward toward the neck.) Also posted above, it is usually true that when intonated properly at the 12th fret, you will find the 5th fret about 1 cent sharp. And always check your intonation after changing strings. You will often need some adjustment.

This year I have twice seen bass players sent off stage at open mic jam nights due to basses that would not play in tune close enough to get by. That's embarrassing, check your bass out before taking it to an open stage.