Buzz at lower frets- Loosen Truss Rod or Tighten Bridge?

[greekorican]

I bought an SX P Bass and I'm totally surprised how easy it is to setup after working so hard on my beat to hell MIM Fender with a warped neck. I've never gotten a setup so close to perfect before.

I have some buzz on the lower frets, especially on the Low F. I'm wondering if I should raise the bridge or loosen the truss rod to give it a little more clearance. I already loosened it a 1/4 turn and it seemed to help quite a bit. Seems to me that raising the bridge won't have as big of an effect all the way at the first fret. What do you recommend?

Also, if I add more relief, does that usually mean I can lower the bridge a bit? If I could somehow just get the action a little bit lower, this bass will play beautifully.

Final question. Would you recommend changing the nut? It takes quite a bit of effort to fret a note at the first fret, it could definitely be lower. I'm between filing out the nut slots a bit or just making a new one. I made a nut once, and while it turned out nice, that was one hell of a project. I couldn't believe how long it took to make a little tiny piece of bone into the right shape.

Thanks guys

[KramerBassFan]

Lower the bridge saddles as desired with an allen wrench.

(Presuming they are adjusted that way)

Good luck!

and keep us updated.

[lethargytartare]

One way to think about adjusting the relief: use it to help achieve very consistent playability up and down the neck. And I'd say that adding relief might help reduce some buzz in the lower register, but you need to view all the parts of the instrument as interrelated, and you want to approach the setup in a systematic way. And since you are not comfortable with the string height at the nut, you probaly need to start from very beginning of the whole process -- adjust that nut, and all the relief and action tweaking you've been doing will almost surely need to be redone. Read the stickies, and some of the lengthy discussions here about setups, and plan out your whole start-to-finish approach. You're gonna want to get the nut set up to your liking first. Then, basically, relief, action, intonate, tweak, play and see what you get. If you really dig in, you may go with more relief and maybe also higher action. If you have a light touch, you might try to get that action a hair's-breadth thin. Once you get a good even setup, if you get buzzing in odd places, check for high or loose frets. If you get buzzing at a point for all the strings, tinker with the setup, etc.

"if I add more relief, does that usually mean I can lower the bridge a bit"

No. Changing the relief doesn't change the height of the heel and the nut relative to the bridge, so changing the amount of relief doesn't dictate how much you can adjust your bridge. So remember the "consistency" thing -- set the relief to be very slight (tons of posts will suggest specific measurements -- I suggest you just get it really really low and experiment from there), set the action, and then play it and see how it feels, how noisy, buzzy, etc. If it's too tough to play, try less relief, and lower the action more. If it's clacky and buzzy, try a little more relief, and nudge the action up a bit. If it's perfect in the lower and higher registers, but tough in the middle, then reduce the relief. If it's horribly buzzy in the first 7 frets, but fine after that, you might need more relief. The ultimate goal is your comfort playing your way -- so expect it to take some trial and error. And don't be surprised if everything is a bit off the next day -- everything might shift a bit. So adjust again, and eventually it won't shift noticably over night.

"Would you recommend changing the nut"

Probably not. Sounds like the slots are too high -- so file them down (or have a shop do it). If they're too low, you can get by with a shim, or you have to make a new one. If it's broken, you'd want a new one. But slots too high can be filed down.

Cheers!

ltt

[Sparkdog]

Some good advice here already, I'll just add this:

Start with the nut and get that right before working with the truss rod and bridge. If the action feels stiff at the first fret it's probably not cut correctly. I am amazed at how many basses (including expensive ones) come with poorly notched nuts. I take every new bass I get to my tech and most of the time they need at least a minor tweak, the difference in the feel before and after is simply amazing.

[Chuck King]

I agree that getting the nut right should be your first priority. But once that's taken care of...

Here's a great way to look at the "truss rod vs. bridge" question when you're dialing in your action:

If you lower the action and get buzz on the LOW frets, then (all other things being equal) you have too little relief, and should loosen the truss rod.

If you lower the action and get buzz on the HIGH frets, then you have too much relief, and should tighten the truss rod.

If you lower the action and get buzz EVERYWHERE, then the relief is set right; just raise the bridge until you don't get buzz anymore (or until it buzzes only on the low or high frets; then lather-rinse-repeat).

If it buzzes in the middle of the neck, or only at certain specific spots or on one string, then you are probably looking at particular low or high frets. If the only place you're having a problem is on your E string at the first fret, that might mean you need more relief, but it also might mean that the first fret is low on that side or that the second fret is high on that side. On an SX bass, that is quite possible and even likely.

[tZer]

There are many factors in buzzing frets and looking solely at relief and bridge saddles is about 1/5th of the equation. There could be high frets - the nut slots could need attention (as someone mentioned) and more.

The truss rod is not an action adjuster - be careful!
You need relief in the neck so that the strings can vibrate properly. If you imagine two people turning a jump rope - one person is the nut, one the bridge. The string's circular motion at the nut and bridge is minimal and in the center is greater. That's what the relief in the neck is there to permit. Even though you can impact action by adjusting the truss, the purpose of relief is not action or string height adjustment - it's to permit the string to vibrate properly.

There's also shimming the neck if it's a bolt-on - but the purpose of relief and the bridge saddles is pretty straight forward - relief lets the strings vibrate properly over the neck, the bridge saddles adjust the string height. Presuming the neck is joined to the body properly, you should be able to get the relief set correctly and adjust the saddles to get your action groovy. If you can't make it happen between those two things, you may have nut issues, high frets or need to shim the neck.

You don't want to use the truss as an action adjuster - that could lead to stripping the truss nut or worse.

Look around for detailed setup instructions - they're here at TB and elsewhere online.

[pmcd]

Originally Posted by Chuck King

I agree that getting the nut right should be your first priority. But once that's taken care of...

Here's a great way to look at the "truss rod vs. bridge" question when you're dialing in your action:

If you lower the action and get buzz on the LOW frets, then (all other things being equal) you have too little relief, and should loosen the truss rod.

If you lower the action and get buzz on the HIGH frets, then you have too much relief, and should tighten the truss rod.

If you lower the action and get buzz EVERYWHERE, then the relief is set right; just raise the bridge until you don't get buzz anymore (or until it buzzes only on the low or high frets; then lather-rinse-repeat).

If it buzzes in the middle of the neck, or only at certain specific spots or on one string, then you are probably looking at particular low or high frets. If the only place you're having a problem is on your E string at the first fret, that might mean you need more relief, but it also might mean that the first fret is low on that side or that the second fret is high on that side. On an SX bass, that is quite possible and even likely.

What he said....

To the OP, have you checked out the Gary Willis setup guide on his site?? It is aimed for his signature bass, but there is plenty of generally great info that applies to all bass setup there. http://www.garywillis.com/pages/bass...tupmanual.html

[wideyes]

As a final thought, (which you may already know), higher action often leads to better tone. Don't be afraid to put some distance between the strings and the fretboard to see if you like the result.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by wideyes

As a final thought, (which you may already know), higher action often leads to better tone. Don't be afraid to put some distance between the strings and the fretboard to see if you like the result.

Beg to differ - higher action may lead to different tone, depending on how you pluck/pick. Better? Not in my books. For me the best tone is achieved with light touch and then string height has very little effect.

But, hey, it's a personal preference kind of thing....

[wideyes]

Sure, YMMV type of thing. Personally, raising the action on all of my basses has improved the tone, sustain etc. It's noticeable to me. But who wants to play with high action, right? I'm torn myself, sometimes.

[SirGrotius]

Originally Posted by Chuck King

I agree that getting the nut right should be your first priority. But once that's taken care of...

Here's a great way to look at the "truss rod vs. bridge" question when you're dialing in your action:

If you lower the action and get buzz on the LOW frets, then (all other things being equal) you have too little relief, and should loosen the truss rod.

If you lower the action and get buzz on the HIGH frets, then you have too much relief, and should tighten the truss rod.

If you lower the action and get buzz EVERYWHERE, then the relief is set right; just raise the bridge until you don't get buzz anymore (or until it buzzes only on the low or high frets; then lather-rinse-repeat).

If it buzzes in the middle of the neck, or only at certain specific spots or on one string, then you are probably looking at particular low or high frets. If the only place you're having a problem is on your E string at the first fret, that might mean you need more relief, but it also might mean that the first fret is low on that side or that the second fret is high on that side. On an SX bass, that is quite possible and even likely.

This was extremely helpful, thanks!

[pbonepickens]

Isn't one of the problems of high action it that it leads to slight out of tune strings higher up?. The further away from the fret a string is (especially as you go up the fret board) will result in it creating a slightly sharpened note when you press it down on the fret board. I would think as low as possible without buzzing based on your style of play would always to the goal? Or am I missing something here? I mean I whack my strings on my string ray sometimes so god knows I need some height but who wants to fight the strings any more than necessary? It's called playing, not working, right?

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by pbonepickens

Isn't one of the problems of high action it that it leads to slight out of tune strings higher up?. The further away from the fret a string is (especially as you go up the fret board) will result in it creating a slightly sharpened note when you press it down on the fret board. I would think as low as possible without buzzing based on your style of play would always to the goal? Or am I missing something here? I mean I whack my strings on my string ray sometimes so god knows I need some height but who wants to fight the strings any more than necessary? It's called playing, not working, right?

That's what the intonation adjustment is for. The intonation should be set after the relief and string height.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by pbonepickens

It's called playing, not working, right?

If you play for free you might choose to call it playing. However, cartage burns enough energy to cause the desire to be paid.

If you get paid, it's called work.