Can anyone explain this weird effect....

Oldboy · #1 12-02-2007, 08:08 AM

I play a Squier P 5.Now,when I fret B on the G string (4 frets up) the note continues to ring even after I've damped the string.If I touch the open E string,the ringing stops.I should add that the ringing effect is actually quite loud,and seems to build after I've fretted the B.It also happens,but to a lesser extent,if I fret B on the D string (9th fret).What is causing this?

smogg · #2 12-02-2007, 08:22 AM

harmonic resonance?
does it only do it one your amp? are you facing your amp when it happens?

GlennW · #3 12-02-2007, 09:06 AM

The harmonic of the 7th fret on the E string is the same note as the 4th fret on the G string. Playing the B on the G string causes the other B to be heard. That's why touching the E string stops the "ringing effect".

GeoffByrne · #4 12-02-2007, 10:29 AM

What's causing it is the lack of left- or right-hand dampening - harmonic resonance is a natural effect particularly when playing loud.

Does it happen when you are not plugged in?

Oldboy · #5 12-02-2007, 11:12 AM

Hi,Geoff.Yes it does happen if I'm not plugged in.The thing is,my Jazz bass does it as well,same note, but not as notlceably.I can understand what GlennW is saying too but I don't understand why it's just that particular note that's so obtrusive.I would go so far as to say that the resonant note is actually louder than the fretted note.

Disc · #6 12-02-2007, 12:00 PM

My P, bass does the same thing, pretty loudly as well, but I wouldnt worry about it.

ehque · #7 12-02-2007, 07:37 PM

The amp is not required to drive the E string into resonance - the vibrating nut and bridge is sufficient. I have not much problems with this, but i think you'll need to learn proper muting technique.

theshadow2001 · #8 12-02-2007, 07:45 PM

Sounds like your bass is the tacoma bridge of basses. Resonance for whatever reason is really effecting the bass. It is most likely a combination of a whole load of factors that resulted in your bass doing this. I think all basses do this to some degree. Although I've never seen an instrument do it to the degree you describe. Maybe adding a little mass like the fat finger thing might change the resonant properties of the bass and calm down the ringing slightly.

ToneRanger · #9 12-02-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

Maybe adding a little mass like the fat finger thing might change the resonant properties of the bass and calm down the ringing slightly.

I'd suggest just getting used to muting any strings you're not actually playing. There's probably lots of other less obvious resonances that are muddying up your sound.

theshadow2001 · #10 12-02-2007, 08:19 PM

well sure muting is an integral part of playing bass. Resonance occurs in basses all the time. But to me a bass that resonates that much sounds flawed. He said that the note resonating on the E string is louder than the one he plays! I'm sure if he picked another one up it wouldn't resonate that much. The fat finger might reign in the resonance but he will still need to learn to mute. The fat finger is not a substitute for technique but a mechanical fix for a flawed instrument.

202dy · #11 12-02-2007, 08:48 PM

The effect is called sympathetic vibration. Here is the concept straight from eighth grade science:

Take two tuning forks of the same pitch, say A 440. Set one to vibrating and place it in close proximity to the second, silent one. The second tuning fork will start to vibrate and generate a tone. This is what happens when unplayed strings on a guitar are not muted. On a bass the resulting sound is referred to as a wolf tone. The solution is to always mute the strings that are not being played. If you search "wolf tones","muting", or "floating thumb" on the technique forum you will find several remedies for this.

EADG mx · #12 12-02-2007, 11:33 PM

+1 everything that's been said

this happens on pretty much any string instrument

setup, EQing, and technique can all cure it

MaxZolt · #13 12-03-2007, 12:11 AM

Yep, it's just sympathetic vibration. There's nothing wrong with your equipment--it happens with everything from basses to bridges (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw). Because all instruments are different, the effect on your bass might be more pronounced than on others you've played.

The floating thumb technique is great for eliminating unwanted harmonics (that's what I use on my 5-string), and there are other ways to mute as well. A fat finger might decrease the ringing slightly by changing the resonant properties of the neck, but I don't think that it's worth spending any money on. Just work on your muting technique, and you should be fine.

MrHarrison · #14 12-03-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

Sounds like your bass is the tacoma bridge of basses.

+1

That would be the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, Galloping Gertie.

Your reference, however, did manage to give me the mental image of sympathetic harmonics snapping a bass in half and the mortified look of the poor guy playing it, so +2 for that.

202dy · #15 12-03-2007, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxZolt

Yep, it's just sympathetic vibration. There's nothing wrong with your equipment--it happens with everything from basses to bridges (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw). Because all instruments are different, the effect on your bass might be more pronounced than on others you've played.

The floating thumb technique is great for eliminating unwanted harmonics (that's what I use on my 5-string), and there are other ways to mute as well. A fat finger might decrease the ringing slightly by changing the resonant properties of the neck, but I don't think that it's worth spending any money on. Just work on your muting technique, and you should be fine.

Well said.

There is nothing wrong with the instrument. This is strictly a technique issue. Changing the setup or effects will not alleviate the problem. The problem will continue to exist to a greater or lesser extent if a new instrument is selected. Only proper muting techniques will cure wolf tones.

Oldboy · #16 12-03-2007, 11:45 AM

Wow,so much input!! Cheers guys,For the record,I am a well seasoned player.Been playing bass for nigh on 30 years,so my technique is not the problem.I am referring strictly to this particular instrument,and how much more evident the effect is in this case.My '68 Precision and much younger Jazz both do it,but barely noticeably and certainly not in a way that would cause problems onstage.No,it's just this bass.Mind you,I've had problems with this bass before now,namely a low volume from the G string,which even a change of pups to Seymours didn't cure,so maybe it's just a Friday bass,which is a pity,cause I love the neck.Don't get me wrong,I still use her on stage,quite a lot in fact.
So as we say here in Ireland"Thanks and Keep 'er lit"

EADG mx · #17 12-03-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

Well said.

There is nothing wrong with the instrument. This is strictly a technique issue. Changing the setup or effects will not alleviate the problem.

What if it's a poorly done setup

aka the pickups are too high generating new overtones

but that's kind of a different story altogether..

anyway I recommend floating thumb technique. I don't think I could play an ERB without it