Can you ever have perfect tuning on all frets?

shadewind · #1 12-23-2009, 05:25 PM

I noticed that on my bass, the second fret on the A string was about 2 cents too high (although the tuner couldn't seem to decide really... IK Multimedia Ampeg SVX built-in tuner). I tried the same on a friends MIM Precision and it had the same thing.

I realize that this could be a problem with the tuner but I recall someone telling me that a fretted instrument can physically never be in perfect tune. Is this true? Or what am I seeing here?

Xynche · #2 12-23-2009, 06:05 PM

It's possible, ajusting the bridge can fix that. But if you press the string hard it will be sharper than if you pressed it soft. So the instrument can be in perfect tune, but as humans we are not able to be perfect on how much presure you use to press a string, meaning we will always be out of tune (even if it's only a fraction of a billionth step)...

electracoyote · #3 12-23-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadewind

I noticed that on my bass, the second fret on the A string was about 2 cents too high (although the tuner couldn't seem to decide really... IK Multimedia Ampeg SVX built-in tuner). I tried the same on a friends MIM Precision and it had the same thing.

I realize that this could be a problem with the tuner but I recall someone telling me that a fretted instrument can physically never be in perfect tune. Is this true? Or what am I seeing here?

I have also read this many times. It's due to the relief and string height. Pressing the string to the fret bends it slightly. You can get most frets in perfect tune, but not all. However, a good setup can make it very hard to tell what's out, and I think your B note on the A string should ring pretty true. If not, I'd say your setup is off somewhere. Could be nut slot height, relief, or intonation.

Top_Ten · #4 12-23-2009, 06:12 PM

It can't be perfectly in tune in all keys, although it can be close enough that you won't notice any out of tune-ness most of the time. Look up "tempered tuning."

shadewind · #5 12-23-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I have also read this many times. It's due to the relief and string height. Pressing the string to the fret bends it slightly. You can get most frets in perfect tune, but not all. However, a good setup can make it very hard to tell what's out, and I think your B note on the A string should ring pretty true. If not, I'd say your setup is off somewhere. Could be nut slot height, relief, or intonation.

Sure it rings true, however, the tuner says otherwise (or rather, it says it's off by two cents... at least sometimes... it fluctuates)

Jazz Ad · #6 12-23-2009, 06:34 PM

No. It can only be accurate in one key at once.
Additionally, the conception of fretted string instruments prevents them from being accurate on all points.

stefandisgust · #7 12-23-2009, 06:36 PM

Fretless!

ugly_bassplayer · #8 12-23-2009, 06:37 PM

No it's physically impossible.
Unless you use true temperament.

MNAirHead · #9 12-23-2009, 06:37 PM

I've taken the time to set up a few like this.. it takes a ton of work..

Not as critical as a guitar.. from a guy who has my intonation dialed in monthly

JLS · #10 12-23-2009, 06:48 PM

Nope.

And stop fussing with the tuner. If you can't hear it, it doesn't matter.

tekkentool · #11 12-23-2009, 06:50 PM

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

yes you can

ugly_bassplayer · #12 12-23-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekkentool

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

yes you can

Very funny.
I'd like to see you show up with that at a gig.
When was the last time you played in a band that used a true temperament?!

BassXgirl · #13 12-23-2009, 06:52 PM

I was just reading about this yesterday in a guitar magazine.

There was a cover feature with Steve Vai. All his frets looked warped.

Check this link.
http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

Pretty interesting!

BassXgirl · #14 12-23-2009, 06:54 PM

Lol someone beat me to it

shadewind · #15 12-23-2009, 07:27 PM

I'd rather say "borders on being sharp" than actually being sharp. And since it's the same on all basses I've tried today (Squier DAJV, MIM P-Bass, Aria Pro II TSB-550), I assume that's the way it works

deaf pea · #16 12-23-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top_Ten

It can't be perfectly in tune in all keys, although it can be close enough that you won't notice any out of tune-ness most of the time. Look up "tempered tuning."

This ^^^^^^^^

Benjamin Strange · #17 12-23-2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

No. It can only be accurate in one key at once.
Additionally, the conception of fretted string instruments prevents them from being accurate on all points.

This.

Don't worry - our Western ears have been adjusting to instruments being out of tune with themselves for hundreds of years.

tdogg · #18 12-23-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefandisgust

Fretless!

+1 your ears probably sense pitch better than anyone in the audience. except for other bass players.

tekkentool · #19 12-24-2009, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ugly_bassplayer

Very funny.
I'd like to see you show up with that at a gig.
When was the last time you played in a band that used a true temperament?!

if i had one i so ****ing would

shadewind · #20 12-24-2009, 12:31 PM

- Hey dude, your frets are... bent....
- Yeah, dropped it and when I picked it up, it was like this. But it looks cool so I'll keep it.