Copper Tape under bridge

lavmonga · #1 05-05-2009, 04:26 PM

Would this help ground the connection to my bridge? I've got a P bass that just has pretty annoying buzz, stops when I touch the bridge/knobs/strings. Would putting shielding tape under the bridge to the ground wire make a more solid connection?

aus_bass · #2 05-05-2009, 04:40 PM

If it stops when you touch the bridge, the grounding to the bridge is OK. The problem lies elsewhere....

lavmonga · #3 05-05-2009, 05:15 PM

Hmm thanks for the info, maybe re-soldering is the key?

walterw · #4 05-05-2009, 11:25 PM

if it stops when you touch the strings, there's nothing wrong with the bass.

heavily shielded instruments do that less, but it's basically normal.

mwalle1 · #5 05-05-2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavmonga

Would this help ground the connection to my bridge? I've got a P bass that just has pretty annoying buzz, stops when I touch the bridge/knobs/strings. Would putting shielding tape under the bridge to the ground wire make a more solid connection?

I had the annoying buzz on a cheaper Fender Jazz a while back, "My toy experiment bass" that I chipped the paint off tore out the frets ect...really bad when the front pup was not on full blast. I went as far as to take everything out and start from scratch and soddered everything back well and proper and still had the buzz and then sent a ground wire from the grounding plate under the knobs and thru the wire hole to the back pup and out of the pup slot to the bridge and it did quiet the buzz down quite a bit. It looked getto as heck with a wire hanging out of the back pup slot to the bridge but it worked better than it did..

Here is a picture link of it for your viewing pleasure

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=10593015

Jaco who? · #6 05-06-2009, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lavmonga

Would this help ground the connection to my bridge? I've got a P bass that just has pretty annoying buzz, stops when I touch the bridge/knobs/strings. Would putting shielding tape under the bridge to the ground wire make a more solid connection?

YES, but only if the back of the bridge has enough of the plating ground off of it so that the tape makes a clean solid connection to it.

I followed the shielding sticky from this forum and used the copper tape in each pick-up cavity, (Fender Jazz) control cavity, and even used some above the routing on the pick guard. I also soldered a wire to each one, then to each other, and then to the jack plate as a common grounding point. Quiet as a mouse now.

Sorry folks, but IN MY HUMBLE, PERHAPS WORTHLESS OPINION, you're just plain, flat out incorrect here, if it stops when you touch the bridge, the grounding to the bridge is NOT OK.

walterw · #7 05-06-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco who?

Sorry folks, but you're just plain, flat out incorrect here, if it stops when you touch the bridge, the grounding to the bridge is NOT OK.

well, then 40 years of vintage and vintage-style basses and guitars are all "not OK", because that's what happens.

it's when you touch the bridge (and by extension, the strings) and the noise doesn't decrease that you have a problem, namely an ungrounded bridge.

complete shielding like you're talking about will indeed reduce the noise created when you let go of the strings, but lots of great music has been made (and continues to be made) on instruments that make noise when you let go of them.

some eric johnson-type fanatics even believe that the slight extra capacitance created by heavy shielding dulls the tone, and want no part of it.

Kevmove · #8 05-06-2009, 08:39 PM

I have shielded a MIM J-Bass and a Squier Modified P using aluminum tape, and both of them are noise free. In fact, I can leave them plugged in with the amp on, and never hear a peep. The key was being thoroughly informed on the wiring process, taking the time to make good clean solder joints, and being prepared to keep working until the shielding between the pickup cavities and the control plate is intact. Incidentally, I did not run a wire from the pickup cavity to the bridge, and I get no hum from either pickup, even when I have one at full volume, and the other is off. SO keep plugging away, take your time, and you can get your bass to be noise free.

excane · #9 05-06-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco who?

Sorry folks, but you're just plain, flat out incorrect here, if it stops when you touch the bridge, the grounding to the bridge is NOT OK.

This statement is 100% false. Where did you get your information from?

Jaco who? · #10 05-06-2009, 09:22 PM

I got this information mostly from here, in the pick ups and electronics forum. (This is in the wrong place, BTW).

Why do you think it is 100 % false? Your body completes the circuit to ground when the bridge does not have one.

My MIM jazz had no ground to the input jack at all. It buzzed.

I grounded the pot casings, bridge, and shielding to the input jack ground. Now it doesn't buzz.

I guess it's just a wild coincidence.

Jazz Ad · #11 05-06-2009, 09:33 PM

It doesn't buzz because you ground the circuit when you touch the strings.
Which is the very function of bridge grounding.
Without bridge grounding, touching the strings changes nothing.
Your witty "wild coincidence" happens at the other end. If you had no link to ground at jack output, you bridge indeed wasn't grounded regardless of what was under it.

excane · #12 05-06-2009, 09:42 PM

^^ Indeed. Just beat me to it

Jaco who? · #13 05-06-2009, 09:46 PM

Ackkk. If the bridge is properly grounded, it doesn't buzz regardless, if I'm touching the strings or not.

Without bridge grounding, your body becomes the ground when you touch the strings.

With bridge grounding, the touching the strings test is moot, because the bass makes no noise to begin with.

That's all I have to say, I'm outa here. You believe what you want to believe........

Jazz Ad · #14 05-06-2009, 09:53 PM

There isn't much of a belief system in electronics.
You know how it works or you don't.

Turnaround · #15 05-07-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco who?

Without bridge grounding, your body becomes the ground when you touch the strings.

This is a common misconception. If the bridge is grounded, when you touch the strings you ground YOURSELF. It's you that is the source of the noise, and when you touch the strings you drain the noise from your body to ground. But if the bridge isn't gounded then touching the strings makes no difference.

Try this experiment. Plug a lead cord into your amp and turn the amp on. Now grab the tip of the plug on the free end of the cord - the very end. Make sure you aren't touching any other part of the plug. Loud noise in the amp right? Now while still holding the tip of the plug, grab hold of the shaft of the plug - noise reduces.

That's because the shaft of the plug is grounded, and when you grab that part you ground yourself and the noise you are generating gets drained. Same deal with grounded strings/grounded bridge.

lavmonga · #16 05-15-2009, 07:52 AM

I fiddled witha few things and now it's quiet as a mouse.

1. I resoldered the pickup ground to the pot.
2. I took off the bridge and moved the ground wire.
3. Complete shielding with a little trick i learned here, leaving a little overhang onto the bass so it connects to the shielding on the pickguard. <-- this really helped, when I screwed in the PG any buzzing that was left stopped completely.

JustDavid · #17 05-15-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco who?

Without bridge grounding, your body becomes the ground when you touch the strings.

Respectfully, I suggest some research into concept & usage of "ground" in the Electrical & Electronic disciplines.

JustDavid · #18 05-15-2009, 04:48 PM

(public reply to a private email from Jaco. a nicely-put & polite email)

Again, no disrespect intended when I suggested you research "ground".

True it was 9 days ago, & numerous folk have already been at you on it. But the post I replied to is still there and it's still wrong.

This is not an "opinion" issue. Physical laws aren't changeable by vote or opinion.

I feel pretty confident in saying you came to the conclusions you've expressed by observing a few situations that DID prove what you hold true. But others with very broad experience &/or deeper technical chops have a different view, & have expressed them.

So, now what? It can be viewed that folk are dumping on you. Or it can be viewed as a learning opportunity.

Take the opportunity!!! Rebut with "If that's true then how come I saw . . . ?" & learn exactly where the core of the disagreement is, & then learn exactly why.

I've been wrong in here LOTS!! And have learned quite a bit from being so. (It's very interesting to have posted just below Turnaround; he's been one of my quite-helpful "correctors" in this Forum; thanks again Turnaround!!)

You have to be wrong to learn; no one learns any more on a topic when they know it all.

Jaco who? · #19 05-15-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco who?

That's all I have to say, I'm outa here. You believe what you want to believe........

Very classy, airing a private message for all to see. For what it's worth, I worked in the electronics manufacturing sector for 20+ years and delt with RF signal noise and grounding issues on pretty much a daily basis. Yup, only a piddling associates degree, so take it for what it isn't worth. Point being, I guess, I'm 50 years old, stubborn as all get out, and much harder to teach than a 16 year old.

The OP seems to have cured his noise issue, which was what the thread was originally created to do. I doubt he really gives a rat's butt whether the shielding he performed or moving the ground wire to the bridge solved the problem. I don't either.

What is it from the quote that you don't understand? YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER THAT.

Next hot topic on the Oprah show - do electrons flow positive to negative, or negative to positive?

Pilgrim · #20 05-15-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwalle1

I had the annoying buzz on a cheaper Fender Jazz a while back, "My toy experiment bass" that I chipped the paint off tore out the frets ect...really bad when the front pup was not on full blast. I went as far as to take everything out and start from scratch and soddered everything back well and proper and still had the buzz and then sent a ground wire from the grounding plate under the knobs and thru the wire hole to the back pup and out of the pup slot to the bridge and it did quiet the buzz down quite a bit. It looked getto as heck with a wire hanging out of the back pup slot to the bridge but it worked better than it did..

Here is a picture link of it for your viewing pleasure

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=10593015

You could install the old-timey J-bass brass ground strip from pickup to bridge and it would look better...?