Is this a crazy idea? 5 string to 8 string conversion?

SteveMcB · #1 09-08-2006, 03:52 AM

I've wanted an dual or triple course (8/12 string) bass for ages (King's X fan and just like the idea/ability to fill space in a trio etc). I have never actually laid hands on one, nor am I likely to in the near future, because they are rarer than hen's teeth with four leaf clovers growing on them in this country!

I have been considering buying one when I'm (hopefully) visiting the US next year. However today a probably crazy idea made its way into my head...

I love my Ibanez ATK's (see sig). They seem to come up for good prices here pretty often. I have a fretted 5 and a 4 that I defretted. Why couldn't I buy another 5 and convert it to an 8?

- The neck would be wide enough (?too wide?)
- I have some guitar tuners lying around at home
- I could buy a set of smaller bass tuners, plug up the old holes, re-veneer the headstock face and re-drill holes for the new tuners
- I would have a pretty cool ATK collection including (probably) the world's only 8 string ATK

Re-engineering the bridge would almost certainly be beyond me, but it could presumably be done by someone I paid to do it. Not that I have much money to pay...

Is this idea crazy? Should I wait until I get to the US and actually try one out? I'm sure it would be cheaper to do that. And less risky.

And yes, I know I don't own a P or a J and should think about getting one of those before I get an 8/12.

hyp.spec · #2 09-08-2006, 08:29 AM

You'd have to get a new bridge, but the only thing I'd be concerned about is the extra tension on the neck - those 3(4) new strings could ruin the neck!

Nick Ioannucci · #3 09-08-2006, 12:54 PM

10 string? im pretty sure you could go 10 if you wanted to.

tplyons · #4 09-08-2006, 02:06 PM

read: http://www.comnet.ca/~hfogo/index5.html

He made both an 8 and a 12 out of 5 stringers.

justinb515 · #5 09-08-2006, 02:13 PM

who says you have to get a p or a j? If you dont want one, dont buy one! I drive a galant and like it, but that doesn't mean you should go get one. (do they even sell mitsubishis in nz?)

SteveMcB · #6 09-08-2006, 06:26 PM

I would love a P, and a J. However, my music gear essentially fills a bedroom in our small house, and I wish to keep marital harmony and household finances intact, so I can't have them. But a cheap 8 string... I'm sure I could find somewhere to put that in the room! My wife understands the collecting thing (books are hers), but they have to do something different to the other ones. I have fretted and fretless 4's and a 5. Another 4 string would not meet the "different enough" criteria.

I drive a Mitsi Libero, incidentally. So they do sell Mitsi's here.

Steve

toolbox77 · #7 09-19-2006, 11:54 AM

I just finished making an 8 from an extra 4 I had on hand...

If you can lay your hands on an old SoundBorn Octopus bridge
it would make your life a whole lot easier to go to 8.

The problem with trying to make a 5string into an 8 instead of
a 10 is that your strings won't be properly placed over your
pick-ups so you won't get a consistent output from them.
As for your basic concept it's the same basic one I've had
for years. It's not as insane as you would think.

You should be able to file the extra groove into each saddle about
3 or 4mm from above(when looking down on your bass, I don't
know whether you're right or left). The same can needs to be done
to the nut. As for the bridge itself you will have to drill an extra
smaller hole just above each of the main strings.

I wouldn't remove the original bass tuning pegs, fill the holes and redrill
I figured the headstock would be to weak for the strain you'd be putting
on it. I would suggest getting a Fender style headstock keeping all your
main pegs where they are and adding the Guitar pegs on the empty side.
To get the guitar strings under the bass strings I would suggest using
something like those little two string clips that you sometimes see just
above the nut.

This is option I was just about to impliment just before I found my Octopus
so this hasn't been done, but I've spent over 5 years picking guitar techs
brains on the idea and this is the best I came up with combined with the
instructions for the octopus.

Any questions feel free to email me... toolbox77@hotmail.com

toolbox77 · #8 09-19-2006, 11:57 AM

sorry forgot to add that you will probably need to adjust your truss
rod a bit once the extra tension is added.

Keith Guitars · #9 09-21-2006, 11:44 AM

This seems like a fun project.
I love those two MM conversions!

A 5-string might have a more comfortable nut width
for the conversion...especially if you're playing hard.
Also, the wider neck will be stiffer.

Pluses and minuses for using the ATK:

Plus: The pickup has a "blade" style polepiece, so string
spacing is a non-issue.

Minus: The bridge plate and pickup route are integrated
together into one big piece of metal, so it would be tough
to change the bridge without altering the pickup situation.

Something to keep in mind: I've built a couple of these,
(as well as many, many 12-string guitars)
and I have found that it's not necessary to have separate
saddles for the fundamental and octave strings, as long
as the action is reasonably low and the strings are gauged
properly. So, simply re-notching a 4-string bridge and finding
a way to anchor the other strings should work.

My suggestion would be: use a Hipshot B-style bridge,
and run one set of strings through the body, with the
others top-loading. Recut string grooves, and you're there.
Then, just saw off the Bridge portion of the ATK assembly,
leaving the pickup surround intact. A chrome bridge, sitting
right against the pickup surround, should blend in OK.

Peace,
Martin

SteveMcB · #10 09-26-2006, 03:58 PM

Thanks for the input guys!

I love those MM conversions too... That is just too cool.

This forum is great for those of us who live in the land of no 8/12 strings. I would never have thought you could convert a standard 4 to a 12...

I will keep an eye out for another ATK 4 string. It seems like a 4 to 8 conversion might be a better idea than a 5 to 8. That way I'd be able to keep the bridge setup original and just re-slot the saddles. The ATK bridge also has the facility for thru body and thru bridge stringing - ie could likely hold 8 strings without modification!

I gotta run, but thanks for all the help.

Steve