Cutting my own nut

[astralis]

Hello, I have recently been doing the DIY thing and I didn't want to stop at just effects and amps. I really want to learn to do my own basic luthier work (fret leveling, setups etc...) and I was concerned about my nut. I have acquired a 75RI jazz from a good friend that was terrible with maintenance (horrible setup, very worn nut, frets VISIBLY high) and I figured this would be the perfect bass to start with. The setup and frets are the least of my worries, for the nut actually has visible cracks in it, making me afraid to even change the strings.

So on to the nut fabrication...
I was thinking of getting a blank with radius from Stew-Mac along with some nut files (which will also come in handy for the un-slotted BAII), BUT it seems they only have a radius of 7.25" in stock...
Either way...
I was wondering what the exact measurements are for the nut, IE how far do I have to file the slots down?
I have heard some things about the thickness of a business card between the first fret and string while depressing the strings at the third fret, but are all strings the same?
Wouldn't the lower (E,A) strings need more room to move than the higher strings (D,G)?
They cant all need the same exact amount of space can they?

I really appreciate the reads and the help guys, I am very confused on how far to file the nut slots...

As a side note, I really want to learn about these things just to learn about them (NOT to take business from luithers).
I still have my other basses professionally set up every other other month .

[lethargytartare]

In the class I took on fretwork, the way we refiled the nut was to put a stack of feeler gauges on the fretboard side of, and butted up against, the nut. Then you file until you hit the gauge. I can't remember offhand what the total thickness we used was (sorry!)...it's in a stack of papers somewhere here hahahaha....

The gauges get chewed up over time, so my teacher said he just stockpiles a few particular thicknesses that he uses regularly rather than buying really nice sets and ruining the same values over and over...

Good luck!

ltt

[coolrunner989]

It might be worth while to take a bass with spacing and hight that you like and measure all the dimensions of the nut on it and copy it (or adapt it if its a 5 string vs 4 string). Be as accurate as possible and I dont see why it wouldnt work.

[ProgRapture]

You win the Most Painful Forum Thread Title Award.

[astralis]

lethargytartare: If you could find the values of what those feeler gauges added up to I would be ecstatic!

coolrunner989: Where would I find such information? I would be happy to copy the nut of a regular old Fender Jazz Bass or whatever, and then get it perfect by going slow and measuring a lot...

ProgRapture: I was wondering if anyone would say anything about this

I remember there being this exact measuring scale for the nut of the Fender Jazz Bass. Something where you depressed the third fret on the neck and measured the distance between the strings and the first fret and the E string measured .xxx and A .xxx and so forth... I just wish i could find it. I have been searching with all my spare time for days now

[ishouldbeking]

My only advice re: nuts has little to do with actual nut-cutting, merely in where NOT to order from: basspartsresource, also known as guitarpartsresource.

I made the mistake of buying a Tusq pre-slotted nut from them and they sent me an unlabeled nut (I'm taking their word that it's a Tusq nut, it could be ground up shark teeth for all i know) that was far too short (height-wise) to be usable. Others have had problems with nuts having slots cut too deep.

I'm not trying to flame the company too much, they sold me some other stuff that was great, but I wouldn't order a nut from them again.

[Asa Samuel]

That thread title took me a minute.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

In the class I took on fretwork, the way we refiled the nut was to put a stack of feeler gauges on the fretboard side of, and butted up against, the nut. Then you file until you hit the gauge. I can't remember offhand what the total thickness we used was (sorry!)...it's in a stack of papers somewhere here hahahaha....

The gauges get chewed up over time, so my teacher said he just stockpiles a few particular thicknesses that he uses regularly rather than buying really nice sets and ruining the same values over and over...

Good luck!

ltt

The formula is:

fret height + X = combined thickness of feeler gauges

X is different things to different people. One rule of thumb is to add .015 the fret height. Use that at the E string. Subtract .002" or so for the A and so on to the highest string. Remember that taking the slot to the final desired depth with a nut file leaves nothing to be polished.

[astralis]

ishouldbeking: Thanks for the heads up, I will most likely buy my nut from stew-mac along with some fret-files and probably a set of feeler gauges

202dy: I really want to thank you for all your help on these forums. I have been searching a lot lately for info regarding getting started working on/fixing my bass. All of the posts you have made are so informative and helpful. Thank you!


psst...what do you guys think of This fret file?

[lethargytartare]

Stewmac has some great info that can be a b#$% to find sometimes...here's the info you want:

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/I-1811.html

And here's a page with someone talking about bass heights in particular:

http://www.mywire.com/pubs/BassPlaye.../02/01/1590846

Best of luck!!

ltt

[basicvoo]

I think I read in one of these threads where dude used an old round-wound string to file the slots deeper. I just d-fretted so I'm doing the same thing. I was thinking about making a bow saw kind of thing where I could inter-change the different guage strings. Maybe this goes without saying, but I think I'll cut 'em a little high, test drive, and go from there.

[lethargytartare]

Originally Posted by astralis

psst...what do you guys think of This fret file?

They're fantastic -- that's the cadillac, and the basic files are the VW bugs...with the basic files, it's easy to leave chatter marks as you reach the end of a filing stroke -- then you have more sanding and polishing work. With the diamond file, you never have that issue. And you can get away with less polishing after using the diamond file. Personally, if I were going to do two or more dressings or fret jobs a year, I'd buy one of those without hesitation.

ltt

[JonathanD]

I have seen this thread title too many times not to at least say that....

That must take a lot of focus. Are you using a knife? ... a saw!!!

[El Barbero]

Originally Posted by 202dy

The formula is:

fret height + X = combined thickness of feeler gauges

X is different things to different people. One rule of thumb is to add .015 the fret height. Use that at the E string. Subtract .002" or so for the A and so on to the highest string. Remember that taking the slot to the final desired depth with a nut file leaves nothing to be polished.

Excelent idea regards feeler gauges, it worked a treat for me.

As for the X all I will say is that when setting up a Squier VMJ a few months ago I found that the finger pressure required at the first fret was to say the least excessive, also the intonation was way off everywhere except 12th fret. When I measured the X you mention it was 0.045 over the fret height.

I took the same measurement on my Sadowsky I found that the nut slots are cut to the same height as the frets. So I cut the Squier the same...... not only did this solve the finger pressure problem but also every note at every fret on every string was, as is the Sadowsky, perfectly intonated.

An old article that used to be on the Sadowsky site is great for set up advice (Set ups of the rich and famous) as is the advice on the StewMac site.

Hope this has helped.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by El Barbero

Excelent idea regards feeler gauges, it worked a treat for me.

As for the X all I will say is that when setting up a Squier VMJ a few months ago I found that the finger pressure required at the first fret was to say the least excessive, also the intonation was way off everywhere except 12th fret. When I measured the X you mention it was 0.045 over the fret height.

I took the same measurement on my Sadowsky I found that the nut slots are cut to the same height as the frets. So I cut the Squier the same...... not only did this solve the finger pressure problem but also every note at every fret on every string was, as is the Sadowsky, perfectly intonated.

An old article that used to be on the Sadowsky site is great for set up advice (Set ups of the rich and famous) as is the advice on the StewMac site.

Hope this has helped.

Certainly the adjustment may be refined. This is merely a starting point. If the someone is performing this task for the first time it is easy for them to go lower even while hitting the feeler gauges. Polishing alone will remove another .002". Cutting a nut to fret height is dicey at best. Polishing to fret height is a better way to look at it. Success with this method is also dependent on a level fretboard and level, well crowned frets. Good neck angle and proper relief is also a must. A smidgen one way or the other and it will fail. Done this way on a neck with little or no relief and a severe neck angle and it is likely that there string will be left lying on the first fret. It is what Dan Erlewine refers to as "blowing the nut".

But if it works for you, bravo! It also means that you have some experience.

[lethargytartare]

Originally Posted by 202dy

The formula is:

fret height + X = combined thickness of feeler gauges

X is different things to different people. One rule of thumb is to add .015 the fret height. Use that at the E string. Subtract .002" or so for the A and so on to the highest string. Remember that taking the slot to the final desired depth with a nut file leaves nothing to be polished.

Quick question -- do you polish the interior of the slots or the bottom of the nut? I'm trying to visualize what polishing you would do that would change the string height after cutting the slots.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

Quick question -- do you polish the interior of the slots or the bottom of the nut? I'm trying to visualize what polishing you would do that would change the string height after cutting the slots.

Slots. Use 400 and 600 grit wet or dry wrapped around the next smallest file. Generally that will fit nicely. 600 grit paper is usually .010" thick so there will be a difference of ~.020" when the file is wrapped. If you wish to be completely nuts, polishing compounds can be embedded in various sizes of yarn to make the slots gleam.

Smooth nut and saddle seats make tuning easier.

[peterbright]

Originally Posted by ProgRapture

You win the Most Painful Forum Thread Title Award.

It's right up there.

[skaliwag66]

They really gotta rename that part.

[skaliwag66]

They really gotta rename that part.