Defretting a P/J Samick

RH434 · #1 12-31-2009, 11:53 AM

Well, I've have been wanting to try a fretless, but didn't want to spend money on buying another bass, especially if I didn't like it. Then I got thinking about defretting. I still have my first bass, a P/J Samick with pretty nice finish. I almost never play it as the tone sounds to "nasally" and the sustain is just awful.

I've tried to do different things with it, replacement bridge, neck shim, different kinds of strings but just can't get a tone I like. I don't want to get rid of it, so it sounded like the perfect project. Introducing: the Samick Fretless.

Here's the start:

Now the fun begins!

Pilgrim · #2 12-31-2009, 12:09 PM

Search this forum and you'll find a great deal of how-to info. Also, get Dan Erlewine's book on guitar repair. Do it right and it will turn out well.

RH434 · #3 12-31-2009, 12:15 PM

I read for hours here on TB. I didn't want to mess this up. The sticky at the top of this forum was very helpful and so are the notes by Hambone. (Thanks!)
Unfortunately, it looks like the tutorial from Chasarms is gone so I figured I'd document the process and outcome for anyone else that is thinking about it.

First: Take the time to tape up your neck and body. This will save from accidents. I had at least 2 slips that would have burned or gouged the wood. It ti time consuming, but worth it.

Next I heated the fret as recommended by others:

Then, Loosen the fret with a knife blade, screwdriver was a last resort on a few stubborn frets:

Now, use a fret puller or make one from a set of end nipper pliers: Rock backward along the fret a tiny bit to lift it and then move the pullers back and repeat. Don't hurry or you will have excessive wood chipping:

Carefully remove the fret wire from the slot:

No matter how careful you are, there will be some chipping of the wood:

Take the time to push the fibers back down and apply a very light amount of wood glue to put them back in. I used a flat screwdriver and some watered down wood glue. Do not sand side to side or all of the chips will rip off and you will have a splintered effect at each fret:

I wanted to have light fret lines in my neck, so I chose to fill the slots with a hardening filler. I used Elmers Pro Bond stainable wood filler which has wood fibers embedded and hardens quite well. I used a putty knife and worked it into the slots and then removed the tape:

Time to let it set up and dry before sanding!

RH434 · #4 12-31-2009, 12:40 PM

The next morning, I couldn't wait to get started. Time for sanding. I didn't have a radius block nor did I have the budget to order a bunch of tools for this project. Someone suggested those sponge sanding blocks at the home improvement store. I decided to give it a try for the first two sandings and do the final by hand alone.

First sand, 120Grit:

Next, 600:

Now I can see that the time and caution payed off. There was minimal chipping you can see on the whole board:

Time for the finish sand with 1200 grit by hand:

Nice, but dull. After cleanup a little lemon oil really helped:

Now time to restring. Had to file the nut down and used 2 business cards thickness as a guide for starters. The bridge would not allow any lower action, and I already had a hardwood shim in there. Time for a little filing on the E saddle:

Now the restring with flatwounds:

A quick check of the relief and string height adjustment:

Just sighting down the neck makes me happy! I really like the look of the strings being the dominant view rather than the checkerboard created by the frets:

I'm very happy with the look. Something was still missing though....

That's just a piece of black vinyl I cut out on my vinyl cutter to dress it up. My wife thinks I'm nuts for doing this, but she also says that frets are like "cheating" (She's a cello player).

The sound isn't perfect. I need to change the bridge and I have a high-mass on order. This one is an aluminum version and could be the culprit for the lack of sustain. I put in some EMG Selects I got on the TB classifieds to improve over the stock, but still not enough.

There is plenty of mwaaah on the D, A and G strings but the G mwah turns into a buzz above the 12th fret. Still needs some attention. Once the new bridge is on and I get the setup fully adjusted, I'll post a complete pic and I'm considering some sound clips if anyone has interest.

This was a fun project but a little nerve wracking and tedious at times. I feel it was worth it.

Please let me know what you think!

morguedoc71 · #5 12-31-2009, 12:46 PM

Nice work...certainly better than me ripping the frets out of my Ibanez Roadstar 2 somewhere back in the early nineties.

bassman0221 · #6 12-31-2009, 12:59 PM

Very clean! I am going to do this one day to an old bass i have.... I used to own a fretless and loved it!

RH434 · #7 12-31-2009, 02:51 PM

Thanks for the kind words!

I find I really like playing it again. Once I get used to the intonation, I might actually become a decent fretless player.

Then I can think about an unlined model.

Pilgrim · #8 12-31-2009, 04:00 PM

Congrats! You did nice work, evidently took your time and came out with a great result. I'm not familiar with the Elmers product you filled with, but given that it has wood fibers and hardens well, it ought to work. You really did this well.

crucislancer · #9 01-01-2010, 02:34 PM

Excellent work.

I did pretty much the same with a MiM Jazz about 2 years ago. I was actually just about to throw on a few coats of epoxy so I could use roundwounds on it when I had financial trouble and had to sell it.

RH434 · #10 01-01-2010, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Congrats! You did nice work, evidently took your time and came out with a great result. I'm not familiar with the Elmers product you filled with, but given that it has wood fibers and hardens well, it ought to work. You really did this well.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. The Elmers really did work out well, as much to my surprise. I'd use it again.

RH434 · #11 01-01-2010, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crucislancer

Excellent work.

I did pretty much the same with a MiM Jazz about 2 years ago. I was actually just about to throw on a few coats of epoxy so I could use roundwounds on it when I had financial trouble and had to sell it.

Thanks for the compliment. Sorry to hear about your Jazz. I really like Jazzes, probably better than the P/J.

I may end up trying roundwounds on it sometime. I used to think they had too much zing, but as my playing improved I find them more attractive. I bet this thing would really mwah with them.

OhulahanBass · #12 01-03-2010, 01:48 AM

I'm actually about to do this to my first bass and happened upon this thread. Great demo!

Pilgrim · #13 01-03-2010, 10:55 AM

What impresses me is how few wood chips you evidently had when pulling the frets. On the one I did, I used a powerful soldering iron but still had substantial chipping at the edge of the fret lines. I probably spent 2-3 hours just guing chips back in afrer carefully collecting all of them.

idoru · #14 01-03-2010, 01:34 PM

Nice work! It's so good to see that TB has had a beneficial effect on the defretting population - I can't help but remember all the gouged fretboards we _used_ to see in threads like these

I used maple veneer when I did my SX Precision (just a shame there's no bridge pickup!):

c-

OhulahanBass · #15 01-04-2010, 01:32 PM

Following RH434's procedure I did my six string yesterday. Still needs flats and a finish. Any suggestions on a dark finish (brands)? How is the tone changed with epoxy?

Thanks RH434!

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Pilgrim · #16 01-04-2010, 01:48 PM

It doesn't need any stain, if that's what you're thinking.

Personally, I'd suggest a light coat or two of Tung oil - that's all it needs to bring out the figure in the wood.

crucislancer · #17 01-04-2010, 01:53 PM

I don’t recall the tone changing too much when I put epoxy on the P-bass I had, but that was over a decade ago. I was using round wounds, and I recall the tone had some zip. Also, it was a maple fretboard, so you have a difference in tone there.

Anyway, when you put on the epoxy, be sure to put on several coats, 6 should do fine, and sand with fine grit sand paper between each coat.

RH434 · #18 01-05-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idoru

Nice work! It's so good to see that TB has had a beneficial effect on the defretting population - I can't help but remember all the gouged fretboards we _used_ to see in threads like these

I used maple veneer when I did my SX Precision (just a shame there's no bridge pickup!):

c-

That looks great! That veneer really stands out.
Looks like a pro job!

RH434 · #19 01-05-2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhulahanBass

Following RH434's procedure I did my six string yesterday. Still needs flats and a finish. Any suggestions on a dark finish (brands)? How is the tone changed with epoxy?

Thanks RH434!

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You're welcome. Glad to provide a little motivation.

That 6 string neck looks fantastic. I used lemon oil on mine since that's what I had, but tung might be better.

I didn't do a finish because I use flats.

OhulahanBass · #20 01-05-2010, 05:02 PM

I just applied Tung Oil last night, it looks even better now! Thanks for the oil advise guys. (phone pic doesn't really show it but it looks better). Now I just need to find flats for a 6 string.

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