Determining depth of nut slots

[Chrisk-K]

Let's say the height of the 1st fret is 1 mm. As a rule of thumb, what should be the string height at the nut?

[Bass.Frk101]

You should touch the third fret and be able to slide a dollar bill between the first fret and the string.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by Chrisk-K

Let's say the height of the 1st fret is 1 mm. As a rule of thumb, what should be the string height at the nut?

1 mm.

Regards
Sam

[Chrisk-K]

You should touch the third fret and be able to slide a dollar bill between the first fret and the string.

I know that. I once read an article where the author talked about adding a certain number to the height of the 1st fret to achieve the one dollar bill clearance. I want to know that number.

[GeoffByrne]

Measure the depth of a dollar bill.

[Chrisk-K]

Measure the depth of a dollar bill.

You cannot add the depth of a dollar bill to the fret height and use the number as the string height at the nut.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Chrisk-K

I know that. I once read an article where the author talked about adding a certain number to the height of the 1st fret to achieve the one dollar bill clearance. I want to know that number.

Place a straight edge across frets 1 & 2. Using feeler gauges, measure the gap between the fretboard and straight edge (mine is .041"). Add .005" and this will give you a nominal figure. That's the complicated way. Edit: my string slots are ~.046 above the fretboard.

Easiest way, as mentioned earlier, is to fret at the 3rd fret and measure the gap between the string and first fret. Ideally, we're looking at .003" - .005". With a little coaxing, I can get that down to .0025". FWIW, the feeler gauges are $4 at Pep Boys and are indispensible IMO.

Riis

[Benjamin Strange]

Before you cut your nut, you should get your neck DEAD straight first. Cut it down to just the point where it begins to buzz a tiny bit open (for me, about .0025" or so) - when you give your neck the proper amount of relief, that buzzing should disappear. If you cut your nut low when you've got a lot of relief, and then straighten your neck, your open strings will buzz like mad.

[lethargytartare]

So, to your specific question:
I go with .01, and fine tune as needed. So if the fret height is 1mm, I'd cut my slots to 1.25mm. In English units, assuming a .04" fret height (1mm) I'd cut my slots to .05".

Good info on StewMac (including measurements):
http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0...t=3&xsr=115260

To add my 2cents to the "how to cut" discussion, the method I was taught, and prefer:

Measure the first fret height (per Riis), use feeler gauges (here's a set on ebay, you can buy two, they'll combine shipping, and you end up with a good batch for under $10: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-1-Set-Precis...item43a30510aa) and here's what you do:

Take the fret height, add .010, create a stack of feeler gauges that equals that resulting number. Lay them across the fretboard, snug up to the nut -- press down on the ends so the stack bends with the radius of the fretboard. File your nut slots, at the appropriate angle for your neck, and stop when your file starts to make contact with the stack of feeler gauges. What's nice about this is that you don't need to mark the nut, you don't need to string up, you can go from slot to slot without stopping, really. BUT the best result will still be to treat these as rough slots that you would then fine tune to your playing preference (again, as Riis described).

[Chrisk-K]

Thanks, lethargytartare

You provided me with what I was exactly looking for.

[Rick Brienzo]

I just sand a pencil in half, lay it on the first two frets and draw a line from g to e on the inserted nut. Cut your slots down to the line. It gives you the proper radius too.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by Rick Brienzo

I just sand a pencil in half, lay it on the first two frets and draw a line from g to e on the inserted nut. Cut your slots down to the line. It gives you the proper radius too.

Think this through again. Using this idea will scribe a line at the top of the fret. The strings will be lying on the first fret.

LT's method is a good start. The slots will need to be refined depending on the desired set up.

NB: The slot should be slanted from the fingerboard down toward the headstock.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by Rick Brienzo

I just sand a pencil in half, lay it on the first two frets and draw a line from g to e on the inserted nut. Cut your slots down to the line. It gives you the proper radius too.

I made a scriber out of steel for that, but otherwise it's about the same method I use.

Originally Posted by 202dy

Think this through again. Using this idea will scribe a line at the top of the fret. The strings will be lying on the first fret.

LT's method is a good start. The slots will need to be refined depending on the desired set up.

NB: The slot should be slanted from the fingerboard down toward the headstock.

So the 25 years I've been cutting nuts for both guitars and basses, I've been doing it incorrectly and the strings have been resting on the first fret.

Damn .

Regards
Sam

[lethargytartare]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Hi.



I made a scriber out of steel for that, but otherwise it's about the same method I use.



So the 25 years I've been cutting nuts for both guitars and basses, I've been doing it incorrectly and the strings have been resting on the first fret.

Damn .

Regards
Sam

To be fair, what 202 said was an understandable concern -- I share it. I can't say that what you've been doing for years hasn't actually been working...you'd surely notice :-) but I can't quite figure out how that works for you. Since all the materials I've read and techs I've dealt with cut the nut slots HIGHER than the first fret, and your description sounds like you cut the slots EVEN with the first fret -- it just sounds like I'm missing some detail. Do you prep your pencil such that it adds a fixed measure of height above the fret? Do you literally cut the slots to the line, or do you "leave the line" (which would still seem to be cutting it very very close). Do you allow a lot of relief in the neck, or get some sick degree of precision on your setups? I'm quite intrigued.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

To be fair, what 202 said was an understandable concern -- I share it. I can't say that what you've been doing for years hasn't actually been working...you'd surely notice :-)

It sure is an understandable concern, but then again there's no absolutely right way to do any part of the setup, IMO anyway. It's all about individual likes, dislikes, requirements, playing style, etc. That's the reason I've strongly expressed that every player should be able to do their own setups, cut their nuts () etc. to their liking. A proposition that's been shot down every single time by the "pro's" .

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

but I can't quite figure out how that works for you. Since all the materials I've read and techs I've dealt with cut the nut slots HIGHER than the first fret, and your description sounds like you cut the slots EVEN with the first fret -- it just sounds like I'm missing some detail.

Think it as a SS zero fret. Perhaps my relief is less than some others (which I doubt), but when I measure the "middle-fret" between two next to it, there's no gap.

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

Do you prep your pencil such that it adds a fixed measure of height above the fret? Do you literally cut the slots to the line, or do you "leave the line" (which would still seem to be cutting it very very close).

Mine's perfectly level, no added height.

First I leave 'em an ina* high and when everything else is as I like, I trim the height. More often than not, the bottom of the slot touches the line after the trimming.

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

Do you allow a lot of relief in the neck, or get some sick degree of precision on your setups? I'm quite intrigued.

I don't normally measure the relief as the repeatability isn't a concern for me, but I'd say it's pretty normal, about the credit card thickness. As for the degree of precision, I don't consider them to be anything special, even sloppy at times, but when I started there was no pro setups available where I lived, so I've learned by doing them.

Regards
Sam

*ina= the thickness of the oily residue that forms on top of the 10 liters of water with a redheads pubic hair in it, after the water is boiled and cooled down. = pretty thin.

[lethargytartare]

Thanks for the extra detail, T-Bird...and --

Originally Posted by T-Bird

...I've strongly expressed that every player should be able to do their own setups, cut their nuts () etc. to their liking. A proposition that's been shot down every single time by the "pro's" .

I agree 100%!

and...

Originally Posted by T-Bird

*ina= the thickness...

lol!!

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Hi
It sure is an understandable concern, but then again there's no absolutely right way to do any part of the setup, IMO anyway. It's all about individual likes, dislikes, requirements, playing style, etc. That's the reason I've strongly expressed that every player should be able to do their own setups, cut their nuts () etc. to their liking. A proposition that's been shot down every single time by the "pro's" .

I agree - every player should at least understand their setup, even if they don't end up doing the work themselves. That said - most people have no clue how to work on their instruments, nor do they understand at what level of tolerances things can and should be. My shop is outfitted with at least $10k worth of tools, and we use a lot of them just for a so-called "simple" setup. We actually teach setup workshops at my shop, and even people who have come in claiming they know how to do a proper setup have walked away with a much greater understanding of what they were doing.

Which isn't to say that the way I do it is the only way, but there's definitely a difference between a setup done by somebody who knows what they're doing and one that doesn't.