do all truss-rods operate on the same principle?

[SallyGrowler]

specifically - is there a truss rod that tightens when turned counter-clockwise as opposed to the standard "righty-tighty"?

Do dual truss rods oppose or conform in direction when adjusting relief?

[john grey]

GENERALLY speaking as to thread issues most of them do. However there are many types of Truss-Rods (as you know) and there are some differences in construction that should be understood if you have a deeper interest in that query. See this simplistic example:
Guitar Truss Rods/Neck Parts

"Dual" styles are generally a reinforcement issue. Yet there are many different designs that function differently, have different aspects of strength, affect on neck relief, and seating construction. It's best to do some independent homework on the specifics of your issue.
There are GENERALIZED statements that are true for the most part. But there again there are exceptions in almost everything that are as unique as musical instrument design.

[SallyGrowler]

thanks - I was trying to dial in some tension on my bass (elbow grease needed to get a qurter turn clockwise) and didn't notice much of a change after letting it sit for a few days. I checked relief with a straight-edge.

I'll dial it back tonight to where I started to see what happens.

It's possible that the rod has been too tight - maxed out?

[calebbarton]

If it wont move at all as in stuck, you are maxed out. Iv seen that before BUT Iv also seen rods that were just plain hard to turn without being stuck. At this point Id say be careful. If you dont know what you are doing or if you have never experienced a lot of truss rod adjustments, you might snap that thing off.

[john grey]

Anything is possible with wood and the independent issues involved in a setup and the unique playing styles of the user.

IMO - The wisest course of action (no pun intended) is to carefully examine what you are dis-satisfied with and expound on those issues independently. If they are string buzz, action height, "playing feel issues"; make any changes one at a time so that you isolate the causation & remedy.

And YES - it IS very possible that your Truss-Rod is tightened quite a bit. That is not cause for alarm.* Occasionally musical instrument necks are not tightened at all due to sever climate changes at point of initial construction (Asia, etc) and long distance shipping.
At which point, the 1st recipient has sever relief (a bow or arch in the neck) & a very high action. The neck is tightened and then weather conditions alter it enough to cause minor issues - especially with fret-height or nut cut depth. The neck (depending upon it's thickness, construction, design, etc) may only need a very slight loosening to achieve desired relief, etc. Strings play a very important role as different strings have different tension at tuned level. On the back of some string packages, the tension in pounds is available as per design, density, size, etc (see D' Addario and some others). This is a very significant bit of information as a simple alteration of string can change a great deal of "feel" & action.

* They also may have foreign matter in the threads (or even cross threaded). A Truss-Rod operates on tension so that GENERALLY speaking they don't turn with the greatest of ease; they should not be expected to. If you feel hesitant, take it to a repair-person.....NOT some young man at the local large commercial guitar store. I make my alteration turns at very small intervals such as 1/8 - 1/4 of a turn. I SERIOUSLY don't believe in turning a rod at the 1/2 turn level. Small intervals may also allow for foreign matter to loosen. Occasionally wax or tread tightening material is placed on the threads to prevent vibration from loosening the unit.

[SallyGrowler]

Thanks - I believe that the high-tension of an 8-string (octave coursed) coupled with climate varients may have caused the instrument to bow a bit more than I'm comfortable with.

According to the links in the above 'sticky":
Fender recomends lossening the strings during truss rod adjustment

Caution: Because of the amount of string tension on the neck, you should loosen the strings before adjusting the truss rod. After the adjustment is made, re-tune the strings and re-check the gap with the feeler gauge.

Whereas the other links sugeest the opposite:

Stew Mac says:

Tune the guitar to pitch and hold the guitar in the playing position (not laying on its back), then use an 18" precision straightedge to see if the neck’s straight. If it rises with some relief, tighten the nut until the straightedge lays as flat as possible on the frets.

If it’s in a back-bow, loosen the nut until the straightedge lays flat on the frets. Doing this sometimes also reveals loose or uneven frets that need attention.

as does Jerzy:

1. As a general rule, the bass should be tuned using standard tuning or whatever tuning
you normally use. Tune it now if you haven't already.

This is conflicting.

If I were to err on the side of caution, I'll probably go with the Fender suggestion in my next adjustment attempt.

[TomB]

Originally Posted by SallyGrowler

Thanks - I believe that the high-tension of an 8-string (octave coursed) coupled with climate varients may have caused the instrument to bow a bit more than I'm comfortable with.

According to the links in the above 'sticky":
Fender recomends lossening the strings during truss rod adjustment


Whereas the other links sugeest the opposite:

Stew Mac says:

as does Jerzy:


This is conflicting.

If I were to err on the side of caution, I'll probably go with the Fender suggestion in my next adjustment attempt.

Yikes, an 8-string! Don't hesitate to seek help.

I too am with Fender on the matter of string tension when tightening. In fact, once I've slightly loosened strings, I usually "pre-tension" the neck by holding the body between my legs & feet and pulling back (not too much pressure needed) on the headstock. This takes the requirement off the rod itself to actually move the neck, so you can focus on the rod & nut.

I also agree that, a REALLY tight nut is telling you something. It could just be old and unused. ...or it could be maxed out, as you suggested. I would try loosening it while tensioning (backbow) as I suggested above. If it really moves easily after a bit, then you're likely at max where you were.

If you're pretty sure you still have "righty" adjustment left, try a drop or two of Liquid Wrench or similar penetrating oil on the rod/nut joint and let it soak a few minutes. It's amazing how well it works. Be careful not to spread it around, though. It's corrosive to some finishes and just nasty in general.

It probably goes without saying, but once your nut is certified to be moving freely, loosening it requires a little less elaboration as the neck is "working for you", not against you.

BTW, things do go wrong w/these systems that can't be fixed by normal access. Unfortunately, none of those fixes that I know about can be called simple, but there is good written and illustrated material available if you're courageous that way.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[SallyGrowler]

In fact, once I've slightly loosened strings, I usually "pre-tension" the neck by holding the body between my legs & feet and pulling back (not too much pressure needed) on the headstock. This takes the requirement off the rod itself to actually move the neck, so you can focus on the rod & nut.

interestong tip - I'll take it into consideration.

I'll avoid liquid wrench at this time and go with a "tiny" drop of Hoppe's No 9 gun oil

[TomB]

Originally Posted by SallyGrowler

I'll avoid liquid wrench at this time and go with a "tiny" drop of Hoppe's No 9 gun oil

OK, I don't know Hoppe's and I hope it helps, but Liquid Wrench (and I think also something called PB Blaster) are specifically designed to loosen up stuck nuts, etc. It's uniquely effective if that's still needed down the road. ...and I didn't mean to be too critical of its properties; I use it routinely before every truss rod adjustment. Just be careful if you do because it's VERY light, lighter even than sewing machine type oil.

[SallyGrowler]

thanks - noted

[allexcosta]

Originally Posted by SallyGrowler

specifically - is there a truss rod that tightens when turned counter-clockwise as opposed to the standard "righty-tighty"?

Do dual truss rods oppose or conform in direction when adjusting relief?

Fodera and Smith rods will add relief when turned clockwise if the bass is finished in the summer...

[Just Thumpin']

Actually ours are reversible...so sometimes they can be set up to add relief and sometimes decrease relief when turned clockwise. It depends on the position in which they are installed (which is easily changed by the player). There is more information about our truss rod system and how to adjust it available for download here in the "Monthly" section:

Caring for your Fodera

Regards,

Jason

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Fodera and Smith rods will add relief when turned clockwise if the bass is finished in the summer...

[allexcosta]

Originally Posted by Just Thumpin'

Actually ours are reversible...so sometimes they can be set up to add relief and sometimes decrease relief when turned clockwise. It depends on the position in which they are installed (which is easily changed by the player). There is more information about our truss rod system and how to adjust it available for download here in the "Monthly" section:

Caring for your Fodera

Regards,

Jason

That's what I meant... I was actually a bit scared first time I did it, but it's easier than adjusting a bridge...

Great rod BTW, Jason... It adds a lot of stability to your necks and any minimal tweak is generally what it takes to achieve a neck with just the right amount of relief.

I also like the new redesigned brass nuts. By rounding the area in the picture (right where it attaches to the steel bar) it got a lot sturdier now, but still the first thing to break if there's some serious user error (instead of breaking the whole rod).

Very intelligent design borrowed from Smith and improved by Fodera. Congrats...

[SallyGrowler]

Thanks for the info - and Thanks TomB - I was able to ease-off the neck tension against the rod with your method.

I noticed that the rod was not 'maxed-out' and it was just the overall tension from the strings putting a choke-hold on the rod.

all good now.