Do you really need a "Pro" for basic set ups?

[Cy_Miles]

Hi all,

I don't come to HS&R often. I spend most of my time in the Luthiers corner lately, and am working on my 3rd build. Actually I am working on all 3 of my first three builds, and am about to start setting them up.

That is not what I am really writing about, I do plan on setting them up myself and if I have any questions I will come here and ask.

Here is my real question.

Almost daily, someone comes to the Luthiers Corner with set up issues (which they should come here for, but again to my point...) and they ask: Should I take this to a Pro.
Or they say:
I think I should take it to a Pro.

Why are people so afraid of adjusting a scew or a bolt? Especially with all of the books, and web sites out there with information on how to dothis stuff?

None of it rocket science, and if you really pay attention and make small adjustments this stuff is so doable, I just don't understand it.

I am sort of lucky that my mom bought me "The Guitar Players Handbook" when I was a kid, and it had a section on set up.

Is it just me?

Do you guys recomment people leave the truss rod and bridge adjustments to the Pros?

[janek65]

Here's my theory: I think a lot of people are concerned that they might damage something beyond repair, because they are inexperienced and do not really know what they are doing. If they change the setup they don't know how to test and proof that change?

Often it's something they paid a lot of money for, so they take it to someone who has the experience to get it right.

[OOZMAN]

Originally Posted by Cy_Miles

Hi all,

I don't come to HS&R often. I spend most of my time in the Luthiers corner lately, and am working on my 3rd build. Actually I am working on all 3 of my first three builds, and am about to start setting them up.

That is not what I am really writing about, I do plan on setting them up myself and if I have any questions I will come here and ask.

Here is my real question.

Almost daily, someone comes to the Luthiers Corner with set up issues (which they should come here for, but again to my point...) and they ask: Should I take this to a Pro.
Or they say:
I think I should take it to a Pro.

Why are people so afraid of adjusting a scew or a bolt? Especially with all of the books, and web sites out there with information on how to dothis stuff?

None of it rocket science, and if you really pay attention and make small adjustments this stuff is so doable, I just don't understand it.

I am sort of lucky that my mom bought me "The Guitar Players Handbook" when I was a kid, and it had a section on set up.

Is it just me?

Do you guys recomment people leave the truss rod and bridge adjustments to the Pros?

Im on the same page as you - no idea. I thought you were supposed to setup your own bass before I came to talkbass... apparently not. To me it's like checking & changing your oil in your car: if you own a car, you should be able to do it. Same with a bass.

[One Bad Monkey]

I'll do a lot of the little stuff on my own. I've never gotten comfortable with adjusting a truss rod, so I'll take that one to a pro in town. The guy happens to be an old friend of mine (who used to work at Wechter and Heritage, so he knows what he's doing), so I know I'm in good hands, and I'm supporting a friend's business.

[Slowgypsy]

I think everyone has a certain comfort level about various aspects in their lives. Some folks are fine doing a brake job on their cars, some aren't. Some folks paint their own houses, some hire house-painters.

Just because you own and have learned to play the instrument known as bass guitar doesn't also require that you know how to adjust it. Very helpful and handy to know how (my personal opinion) but certainly not required.

Actually, I'm a bit fascinated that this topic is of any interest to anyone. If you're not comfortable working on your instruments than take it someone who is. If you are... more power to you.

[Joe Nerve]

Fear.

And an unwillingness to grow.

I think themz are the foundations of it all.

I'm sure lots of other stuff goes into it too. A friend of mine insists on getting it done "right" and gives the neighborhood guy $80 every 6 months or so. I think there's a feeling of security they get thinking that if you pay someone they'll somehow do a job better than you ever possibly could. Truss rod horror stories probably play into it (although I don't know anyone who ever snapped a trussrod). As someone else said, it's probably a big part of protecting their investment also. I guess I can understand if someone knows nothing about doing it, wanting to have it done right. The money is probably a lot less important to them than the effort it would take to learn that it's not all that difficult a thing to do.

Funny, but while just writing this I think I gained a little empathy. Those of us that have done it 100s or 1000s of times wouldn't trust anyone else to do. If I think back to when I was a kid though... I was frikken clueless, and I for sure wouldn't want to mess up my instrument. If money weren't an issue I might have never had the desire to learn myself. Would have been a lot easier to simply bring it to a pro, and if the results are good... well. It does take a little knowledge and skill to be able to look down a neck, see and judge the amount of relief. If I were a newbie, WHEN I was a newbie, I simply didn't have a clue.

I've got an upright 3 feet from my bed that I never use because it desperately needs a setup. Why aren't I doing anything about it? Cuz I'm pretty much clueless... and too cheap and lazy to lug it to someone. Bla, bla, bla....

Last note. When I was a kid (and played guitar) they had a fret leveling kit for $20 at Sam Ash. I thought this was the greatest thing in the world. I ran home and sanded all the frets down on my guitars, thinking this was how you get great action. Destroyed what I believe was a pre CBS tele and a handful of other cheap guitars. Of course there was no internet at the time to tell me what an idiot I was. Come to think of it, there was no such thing as a PC. I think I'm getting old.

[ridgeback]

its not so hard to do once you know how..when i started out i had no clue that you could adjust anything on a bass they were just nuts and bolts and screws that held the bass together..long story short a local player maybe 20+years older than me that i used to go watch play basicly became a mentor taught me scales and theory and how to set up my guitar to get the best form it..maybe not 100% exactly right but in 20+years of playing myself its never failed me..its very handy to know how to do and if you can find somebody will to teach you its well worth the effort..kind of scares me when i read about younger lads just turning truss rods and the likes when they dont know what they are realy are doing.its not hard to do but small changes on a truss rod make a huge differance else where. not such a big deal on a new guitar but on an old guitar there are lots of other things to take into account (fret wear and so on)..had a 70s fender j that was a nightmare to set up,slight change in the weather and it went out of tune neck would change,was handy to know how to set it right on the spot..sold the fender not long later..its a good tool to have along side your playing skills..

[FunkMetalBass]

I'll always spend as much time as I can on my setup. Sometimes, though, I just can't get it, and I take it to my tech. More and more, though, I'm relying on him less and less. I still cruise over there often and chat, though.

[pedroims]

can be many reasons: they dont know what they are doing, they are wealthy, they dont have time, they just dont like it, or maybe their time is very expensive that they prefered to make money and let someone else do that job.

[mech]

How many people do you know who have never changed a flat tire or dealt with a bad connection on a car battery?

Fewer people are growing up to be mechanically inclined wrench turners because they don't have the role models. No dad or uncle who could/would fix anything due to economics, inclination or just the fun of it. So much stuff (starting in the 80s?) became NRTS (not repairable this station), complex, no moving parts, cheaper to buy a new one than fix or takes a degree in Mojology to understand the basics of how it works.

Musicians are tuned to their instruments and after some period of time want to understand how they work. Those that begin to understand learn they can tinker with them and begin the real learning process.

mech

[lethargytartare]

New owners might not even realize all the parts that are there for adjusting, and don't find out until they actually NEED something done. And when you have a problem to be fixed, you may not be motivated to start the learning and trial-and-error process, so you go to a shop. And new folks don't know the right questions to ask, so getting to info is not always as simple as it seems to us. In fact, it worse than that -- armed with the wrong questions, you have to wade through lots of BAD information...and newbies don't have the judgment to tell the good from the bad, so that can be discouraging.

My motivation was a mix of curiosity and the desire to save money. Once I got started, then I wanted to read and try everything...but I know lots of fantastic guitarists who would genuinely rather spend every spare second playing than spend ANY of that time tinkering...I can respect that.

And despite all the work I've done, I can't get the same results as a couple of shops I know...so there are definitely times that I'd consider going to a shop. I have a couple of guitars that I won't do fretwork on -- if they need it, they go to a shop. Some day that will change, but there are pros who do such a good job, it's hard not to indulge some times...I can cook, but I still go to restaurants sometimes...

[BritFunk]

My Friends,

The only time my bass goes into the hands of a "pro" for adjustment is if it needs something major done, such as a complete refret.

I prefer to be the one to set up my own basses, as I have yet to find another tech that can set up a bass to suit my personal playing preferences. Yes, I am very, very particular about my setups - I like the fretboard to be almost (but not quite) completely flat with ridiculously low string action, but I am *really* uptight about the intonation being flawless.

Just as I don't like having to take my car into a dealership every time something minor requires a bit of my attention, I don't fancy taking my bass to another tech over minor adjustment issues.

----
Kurt

[JLS]

Originally Posted by OOZMAN

Im on the same page as you - no idea. I thought you were supposed to setup your own bass before I came to talkbass... apparently not. To me it's like checking & changing your oil in your car: if you own a car, you should be able to do it. Same with a bass.

Yep.

[mndean]

Polar Opposites: My bandleader will take his guitar in for most any problem, even to have the strings changed. Me, as soon as I bought my first instrument I learned how to do setup and have never gone to a pro unless there was a problem I couldn't fix or didn't understand.

[SteveC]

I'd say for me it was truss rod. Bridge screws, pickup height, etc. Aren't as big a deal as it's just a philips head screw. Pretty normal. The truss rod, however, is a little different. Hex screw, all the fear of destroying the neck, etc. That's fairly intimidating stuff. I learned to do it under the watchful eye of my tech and friend. I am fairly comfortable now. I will do my string height, intonation, etc. I think it's rewarding - if you are comfortable - to do it yourself. After all, you are the one playing it and you mow how you want/like it to feel.

[Staccato]

Though I want to learn this stuff, I prefer a systematic approach. The challenge seems to be-finding a definitive guide to a complete setup, step 1, step 2, etc.

And there's lots of opinions on how to approach a complete setup...

[mulchor]

There was a time some years ago I was surprised to find out I was just about the only person in my group of colleagues who actually cleaned his own bathroom.

Would you believe over half of the taxpayers in the USA actually pay someone to do it?

Hard to believe, isn't it?

Or how many people call a plumber for simple things like putting in a new sink.

To be honest, I haven't changed my auto's oil since Reagan was president. I don't even have the tools for it anymore. If I never mow a lawn again, that'd be just fine with me.

I actually like supporting local businesses who'll do the chores that I'd rather not.

Just like with your bathroom, it's much worse to leave instrument maintenance undone than to hire it out.

[Alucard817]

I learned how to do basic set up on my basses and guitars by doing a bit of research and practicing on a cheap POS Ibanez gsr100 (old 2007 model P bass, not the new ones) and ya i messed up quite a bit, but the lessons i learned were invaluable i now know through trial and error not to mess with the truss rod unless absolutely needed, and even then only allow minor adjustments. of course i still wont touch wiring simply because i havent learned how to solder yet (plan on learning that soon) after i do a bit of research.

now i feel comfortable enough to set up any of my basses, and some of my friends ask me to work on their guitars as well.

[guroove]

Going to a pro would be a big waste of money for me because I tweak my bridge settings and truss rod continuously after I change a brand or gauge of strings. I finally got both of my main basses exactly how I like them after fiddling for a long time.

[mulchor]

Originally Posted by guroove

Going to a pro would be a big waste of money

Not a "big waste"

It sounds like yes it would be a waste for you. But the people who do this kind of work don't charge much.

I DIY cuz I like it, prob'ly almost as much as I like playing, and I want it done my way. But I don't kid myself that I'm saving much money, especially if I amortize the tools.