Does perfect intonation really matter?

[Kabal]

I'm asking because I don't play up at the the 12th fret on the E or A strings even the 9th is a rarity for me. I usually just travel up to the D and G if I need those notes. So is perfect intonation really necessary if everything I'm playing is in tune?

[craigcapener]

Im afraid it is, if the whole neck isn't intonated everything will be out of tune with itself. Try playing a chord and you will hear that its out.

[Rockmusician]

I prefer my bass to be properly intonated. If it isn't, you will never be able to accurately tune your bass.

[madmachinist]

actually , "perfect" intonation is a compromise in itself .

if it makes any difference , you could be theoretically "more" in tune lower
on the neck if the higher frets' tune were compromised.
(does that make any sense?)

[JimmyM]

perfect intonation doesn't exist, as mad machinist says. however, getting it as close as you can is important, because it doesn't just affect notes higher up on the neck.

[Freez]

Yeah, I've heard "perfect" intonation isn't really possible due to the design constraints of the instrument. For perfect intonation, the strings can't all be the same length. I think the fanned frets idea is an attempt to compensate for this, but I'm not sure how successfully.

[JFN]

Perfect intonation is like perfect time - it doesn't exist in the real world. Just like a solid groove may be pushing a bit, or pulling back a bit at times, "good" intonation occurs not only within the instrument but also in the context of the other instruments in the ensemble.

Also, pianos are typically tuned using a technique called stretch-tuning. This means the higher notes are slightly sharp and the lower notes are slightly flat. You can hear the difference on some digital pianos if they have a "normal" piano patch (i.e. stretch tuned) and something normally called Piano A440 or similar. The 440 piano is typically programmed to be "perfectly" in tune and generally sounds sterile and not pleasing to the ear.

So I normally try to get my intonation as good as I can on a fretted bass but I don't sweat it if I can't the B string perfect at the 12th fret, for example.

John

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by JFN

Perfect intonation is like perfect time - it doesn't exist in the real world.

And you can prove it to yourself with a very accurate tuner setting the intonation up perfectly at the 12th and checking tuning across the whole instrument. It will never be perfect. If you want to know why most set it up at the 12th intonate at the 5th and do the same experiment.

You could space the frets to play in perfect tune but only in one specific key. All other keys would sound pretty sour. Search "tempered tuning" and you'll probably find a mathematical explanation.

[calebbarton]

The worst part of this whole situation is even if you could set your intonation perfectly, it will still be off. Depending on how hard you fret your instrument, the string could break over the fret differently. If you press down really hard, you are gonna throw intonation off a little bit. If you pull the string a little when you fret, you will throw it off. The only way I could imagine perfect intonation is by perfectly fretting each note exactly in the right spot and do the intonation yourself.

[Rick Auricchio]

When I set up my basses, I go for the best possible intonation, even with the fretless ones.

Why play an instrument that isn't in tune? (And I'm not going to get into the business of how the scale isn't perfect on a fretted instrument...)

[Kabal]

I set it up and I do notice a difference when playing a chord. Its kind of subtle maybe not totally noticeable in a mix but I'm glad I did it.

I maxed out the screw on my E saddle and it still isn't totally in tune at the 12th but its only off by a hair so I'm happy with it

Thanks all!

[fokof]

Perfect intonation is possible only on a fretless.


(if you don't use open strings)

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by fokof

Perfect intonation is possible only on a fretless.

But highly improbable.

[pandaman37]

i think youd appreciate the difference. when i had my squier the intonation was off on the E: not enough for anyone to notice except me. i mean, its pretty simple to do, and i think it helps quite a bit more than people give credit.

[prd004]

If your intonation is off, it becomes more apparent the higher up on the neck you go, but it is off everywhere. Like the previous posters already said, intonation on a fretted instrument is already a compromise, but you don't want to compromise it further.

[john grey]

It IS a compromise but I've heard basses that someone just "popped on" a bridge, fast, and it frankly sounded poorly. I've heard some that sounded like crap - period, the adjustment was SO far off. There ARE some bridges that have really well made adjustments that you can get fairly close (not perfect) because of the design. It takes all of 10 minutes to get a Bass intonated; there's no reason not to do so.
There are some companies that make tuning calibrators that are very accurate (like Seiko) that can get pretty close. But the idea is that if you need a longer screw, or a fret job; you get it....unless your very close anyway. I've seen a good Bass become an excellent bass and a "entry-level" Bass become a damn good one with time put in to intonation. It's worth it! I mean, you are quite literally talking about being out of tune (essentially)....

Just opinion here but this "trade-off" may also be a issue of action height because if you are not pushing down hard on the fret to get a clean note you can come a bit closer to a fretted note and the harmonic intonated note. You have a low action where you are fretting gently; that neck is (generally) going to come closer than one where you have to apply greater pressure.

[Pilgrim]

Intonation needs to be as good as the human ear can hear.

That also implies that it does NOT need to be as good as an electronic tuner can hear, because the human ear isn't as accurate as a tuner.

Which is to say that in IMO close enough is good enough; perfect is not required.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

But highly improbable.

[grisezd]

I notice (when playing my fretless especially. My fault, not my bass!) that if I'm just a hair out from our keyboard player the tone goes to hell. It just gets muddy. I remember just enough about physics to think it's our sounds coming in and out of phase and not just cancelling but "beating". If I'm playing with just a guitarist, especially a really dirty one, that it doesn't happen, but with keys it just feels bad. I'm guessing it sounds that way front of house too.

[xxjazzbassist]

its not hard to whip out the tuner and tune...takes 30 seconds tops