Dumb question about feeler gauge!

Chrisk-K · #1 09-12-2010, 05:55 PM

I bought a feeler gauge set to accurately measure the neck relief. I see how feeler gauges can be used to measure the gap between two flat surfaces.

Well, the frets are curved. So, I'm having trouble measuring the distance between the string and the fret. Is there a trick?

hdracer · #2 09-12-2010, 06:00 PM

It is hard to get a accurate reading on the outside strings and imposable to get at the inside ones. I got one of these, worth every penny. It is one of the best tools you can have.
http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/0670

Chrisk-K · #3 09-12-2010, 07:54 PM

Wow, I never knew such a tool existed. I ordered one!

walterw · #4 09-12-2010, 08:07 PM

that stew-mac ruler won't tell you neck relief, only string height.

as for feeler gauges, it's easier to just get bits of plain guitar string in the sizes you need (.010", .012", etc.) and use them as feeler gauges.

timmus · #5 09-12-2010, 08:21 PM

Where I work we have two machine shops. I had a friend make me feeler gauges using billet aluminum for setting up my basses , one for .012 for setting truss rod, another for .094 for setting relief and .109 for setting p/u height....these get me in the ball park and I'm not futzing with stacking multiple feeler gauges trying to come up with the correct combination of gauges for the correct thickness...they work slick as snot.

OmnitzGarima · #6 09-12-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisk-K

Wow, I never knew such a tool existed. I ordered one!

Great little tool, you won't be sorry. Measure the string height at several places along the neck. Stopping a string at around the 12th fret and measuring string height around the 6th will give you an approximate idea of neck relief. I have notes on those measurements for all of my guitars, so if I take one to a tech (I'm not a serious builder) I know what to ask for.

timmus · #7 09-12-2010, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmnitzGarima

Stopping a string at around the 12th fret and measuring string height around the 6th will give you an approximate idea of neck relief.

Usually they recommend you place a capo behind the first fret as well so as to take the nut height out of the equation, then fret the string at the 12th fret...the height of the string over the 7-9th frets will be your relief.

OmnitzGarima · #8 09-12-2010, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmus

Usually they recommend you place a capo behind the first fret as well so as to take the nut height out of the equation, then fret the string at the 12th fret...the height of the string over the 7-9th frets will be your relief.

Good point. Most of my guitars have a zero fret, which accomplishes the same thing.

timmus · #9 09-12-2010, 08:45 PM

yup, you're right...I was going to qualify my comment with that and forgot to...

seanm · #10 09-12-2010, 08:49 PM

No trick, you measure from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. It doesn't matter that the fret is curved. Just watch if the string moves and try to hold the feeler as flat as possible.

walterw · #11 09-12-2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmus

Usually they recommend you place a capo behind the first fret as well so as to take the nut height out of the equation, then fret the string at the 12th fret...the height of the string over the 7-9th frets will be your relief.

i usually measure by holding down the first and last fret, but the principle is valid, take the nut out of the equation for a more accurate read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmnitzGarima

Good point. Most of my guitars have a zero fret, which accomplishes the same thing.

not really; most zero frets are a size or two bigger than the regular frets, and thus will still throw off the relief reading. capo the first fret for the real measurement.

Bob C · #12 09-12-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmus

Where I work we have two machine shops. I had a friend make me feeler gauges using billet aluminum for setting up my basses , one for .012 for setting truss rod, another for .094 for setting relief and .109 for setting p/u height

What is the .094 for? Isn't setting the truss rod the same as setting the relief?

Chrisk-K · #13 09-12-2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

that stew-mac ruler won't tell you neck relief, only string height.

I would be able to tell my neck relief by measuring string height. All I need is to see if there's a 0.2-0.3mm gap at the 7th or 8th fret while the 1st and last ones are pressed.

timmus · #14 09-12-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

What is the .094 for? Isn't setting the truss rod the same as setting the relief?

yes...and no. When doing a setup, I usually set the neck almost dead flat first with just a touch of relief (.012) at the 9th fret, using a flat steel ruler across the frets. Then I set the string height at the same place by adjusting the bridge (usually .094). Then I set a bit more relief by turning the trussrod ccw, check height and adjust the bridge settings down a bit if the strings are now too high...I go back and forth a few times (truss rod & bridge) until I get the action at about .094 with no (or very few) buzzes. Although this is how Fender recommends setting their basses up, I find that it works very well on all my basses.

I usually get a little bit of fret buzz near the end of the fretboard but that's fine...I very rarely play that high up.

OOZMAN · #15 09-12-2010, 10:07 PM

I just kinda... adjust the truss rod and the bridge height a few times until it barely doesn't buzz and has the correct curve and low action. Some people call it good judgement. Pretty high tech stuff here.

/sarcasm

timmus · #16 09-12-2010, 10:12 PM

yeah, once my basses have been setup once, that's about all I do too...the only time I drag out my gauges now is if I am starting from square one like if I've made a new nut, changed bridges, neck or whatever...it helps get me in the ballpark quickly.

Bob C · #17 09-13-2010, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmus

yes...and no. When doing a setup, I usually set the neck almost dead flat first with just a touch of relief (.012) at the 9th fret, using a flat steel ruler across the frets. Then I set the string height at the same place by adjusting the bridge (usually .094). Then I set a bit more relief by turning the trussrod ccw, check height and adjust the bridge settings down a bit if the strings are now too high...I go back and forth a few times (truss rod & bridge) until I get the action at about .094 with no (or very few) buzzes. Although this is how Fender recommends setting their basses up, I find that it works very well on all my basses.

I usually get a little bit of fret buzz near the end of the fretboard but that's fine...I very rarely play that high up.

It's a common practice to alternate tweaks between trussrod and bridge for an optimal feel. But adjusting string height at the bridge is not adjusting relief.

Also, I don't understand the part about using a flat steel ruler across the frets. Isn't that what the feeler gauge is for?

timmus · #18 09-13-2010, 07:17 AM

You're right, relief isn't adjusted with the bridge...only by the trussrod is it adjusted. I guess I wasn't clear on that...the ruler I use is actually a tool sold by StewMac but any straight ruler over 12-15" can be used...
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/St...xst=3&xsr=2029

you put the straightedge on the frets and measure the relief under the frets, usually in the vicinity of fret 6-9.

dave_bass5 · #19 09-13-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

Also, I don't understand the part about using a flat steel ruler across the frets. Isn't that what the feeler gauge is for?

This video shows how its done.
You can just substitute the Lakalnd recommended relief for whatever your bass manufactures recommend one is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIzV9462xeE

This video really helped me understand what's what with set ups. Well worth looking at IME.