E string tuning issues on P bass

[dancrocker]

Here's the problem:
I tune the E string open. I check the 12th fret harmonic and it's in tune. Fretted notes are a little sharp. I didn't do an exhaustive study, but it seems like they get a little sharper as I go up the neck. At the 12th fret, it's about 25 cents sharp. At the 5th (for example), it's maybe 15-20 cents sharp. All the other strings are fine.

I read other posts that describe similar problems but none seemed to be exactly this one. I saw several suggestions to change strings although I didn't see any explanation as to why strings would cause this. The strings are about 2 months old.

Could there be some sort of setup problem that's causing this? What about how the string was installed (e.g. twisted?). Could I be doing something wrong here?

[ddnidd1]

If it's sharp at the 12th fret then your intonation needs to be adjusted. That's the place to start. Check out the Stickies in this forum.

[dancrocker]

Originally Posted by ddnidd1

If it's sharp at the 12th fret then your intonation needs to be adjusted. That's the place to start. Check out the Stickies in this forum.

From what I read, intonation needs adjustment if the 12th fret harmonic doesn't match the 12th fret fretted note. This is not my situation. Or, did I misunderstand?

[MonetBass]

Originally Posted by dancrocker

At the 12th fret, it's about 25 cents sharp. At the 5th (for example), it's maybe 15-20 cents sharp. All the other strings are fine.

Sounds like the 12th fret and harmonic DON'T match, and you need to move the E saddle back (towards the back of the bridge) a bit. Re-tune, then re-check the fretted notes. Move again as needed until it's all in tune. As stated, these procedures are available in the stickies.

[McSpunckle]

Originally Posted by dancrocker

From what I read, intonation needs adjustment if the 12th fret harmonic doesn't match the 12th fret fretted note. This is not my situation. Or, did I misunderstand?

You said the 12th fret was a little sharp, so it would seem that is exactly you situation.

You need to back the E string saddle up a little, it sounds.

[dancrocker]

Originally Posted by MonetBass

Sounds like you need to move the E saddle back (towards the back of the bridge) a bit. Re-tune, then re-check the fretted notes. Move again as needed until it's all in tune. As stated, these procedures are available in the stickies.

Yes, I found the instructions and they don't seem too difficult. But, I'm still not clear as to why I need to do this if the harmonic and fretted 12th fret notes are both in tune.

[dancrocker]

Originally Posted by McSpunckle

You said the 12th fret was a little sharp, so it would seem that is exactly you situation.

You need to back the E string saddle up a little, it sounds.

Oops...
I can't imagine why I was saying two contradictory things at once. Sorry!!! You're right, of course. I will try this.
Thanks!

[McSpunckle]

Originally Posted by dancrocker

Oops...
I can't imagine why I was saying two contradictory things at once. Sorry!!! You're right, of course. I will try this.
Thanks!

Happens to the best of us. Hopefully that fixes the problem.

[Mrdak]

Try this right here,
Unless you play the bass laying down on your back.....
Hold it on your knee in the playing position, and just get your open strings tuned. Now, don't worry about the harmonic, but fret the 12th, and set the intonation from there. First open, and then make your saddle adjustment while getting the 12th fret intonated. That should work just fine.
After you intonate all 4 like that, start over and double check them all. If you had to do a fairly major adjustment to any one of the strings\saddles, it can throw one of the other strings out just a tad. if so, then repeat the process till they all stay intonated.

Just to see what I mean... lay your bass down flat on it's back and tune it. Then place it on your knee, and check it..... It will not be in tune. It'll be flat.

I hope that helps you brohiem

[semajniwdoog]

I assume your using a tuner to adjust - try tuning without the harmonic and only using the fretted note at the 12th fret. It was not mentioned earlier, but harmonics are naturally a little flat. Our tonal system is not a perfect one - it's tempered, or adjusted to sound good to our ears.

[dancrocker]

I moved the saddle of the E string back and now the tuning seems nearly perfect. This was easier than I expected. I will say that I had to move it quite a lot (more than I expected). Moving the saddle back seemed to raise the action a little so I lowered it a touch. I guess this is because the saddle is closer to the end of the string so it pushes it up a little.

One thing that does puzzle me is that the saddle positions don't seem to be in what I've read are the "typical" places. The saddle for the D string is closest to the neck. The A and G strings' are back a bit and about even. The E string's is back the furthest. I'm not worried about it because all the notes are right :-). Mostly I'm just curious. Any insight would be welcomed.

Anyways, thanks for the help.

[ByF]

Originally Posted by dancrocker

One thing that does puzzle me is that the saddle positions don't seem to be in what I've read are the "typical" places. The saddle for the D string is closest to the neck. The A and G strings' are back a bit and about even. The E string's is back the furthest. I'm not worried about it because all the notes are right :-). Mostly I'm just curious. Any insight would be welcomed.

Don't worry about what it looks like as long as it sounds right. I've had string sets where the E was all the way back, and others where it was forward of the A and D. It doesn't matter.

Ed

[RustyAxe]

Intonation issue. Adjust the saddle.

[andk5591]

FYI - String guages impact intonation as well as the strings themselves. For example, I went from DR Sunbeams to Lowriders (same guage strings) and after adjusting the truss rod slightly to compensate for the added tension (relief was set the same as Sunbeams), the intonation needed adjusted.

Anytime you change to a different string, you need to readjust. Even with the same strings, I check it, but it usually doesnt change.

Here's one more thing that is REAL important. When setting the intonation squeeze the note as hard as you normally play. Watch your tuner when you play the 12th fret and squeeze a little harder. The pitch changes slightly.

[dancrocker]

Originally Posted by andk5591

FYI - String guages impact intonation as well as the strings themselves. For example, I went from DR Sunbeams to Lowriders (same guage strings) and after adjusting the truss rod slightly to compensate for the added tension (relief was set the same as Sunbeams), the intonation needed adjusted.

Anytime you change to a different string, you need to readjust. Even with the same strings, I check it, but it usually doesnt change.

Here's one more thing that is REAL important. When setting the intonation squeeze the note as hard as you normally play. Watch your tuner when you play the 12th fret and squeeze a little harder. The pitch changes slightly.

This is interesting. I had my bass set up by a shop a few years ago. Since then, I have used the same gauge strings as they used but have used different brands and types (right now, I have flatwound...I believe they set up with round). I didn't realize that I should be checking the intonation when I changed strings. For that matter, I didn't realize I was capable of checking or adjusting it . I also have not made another other adjustments (e.g. truss rod). I have a hard time believing that the original setup had the E string so far out of whack. So, maybe the strings I have now are different enough from the original ones that the intonation needed an adjustment.

[andk5591]

The saddle positions can vary quite a bit with different strings. I sure as hell don't intonate for the hell of it LOL. Have fun - play with it.