Ervana compensated top nut

mech · #1 06-13-2010, 12:10 PM

In the light of possibly seen as a heretic, I thought this was too good to not pass on....

I just finished installing an Ervana compensated top nut on a friend's Gretsch Syncromatic Elliot Easton and the difference in "being in tune" is truly astounding. This is immediately noticeable on the Cowboy Chords actually sounding in tune. Except for cutting the slots to set the string height at the top nut and having to turn three of the bridge saddles on the Tunamatic bridge to re-set the intonation, the installation was easy.

Kind of pricey but well worth the money. I was skeptical but now know this works.

http://www.earvana.com/index.html

mech

Thunder Pulse · #2 06-13-2010, 12:31 PM

I think it's a great idea and have read about them for some time; I just wish they made one for basses.

Flipsnake · #3 06-14-2010, 08:46 AM

...isn't that what bridge saddles do?
I can see it being handy for acoustic players, but electric solidbody guitars and basses already have a way to adjust intonation on each string.
So what's the fuss about?

mech · #4 06-14-2010, 01:37 PM

If you go to the link and look at where the witness points of the nut are located, you'll see they're not in a straight line. Some are moved toward the bridge by different amounts. This makes the positions of the frets "flat" for those strings. It is effectively moving sections of the frets toward the top nut. The largest difference is heard in the major third sounding in tune in the first five frets.

With a normal straight line nut, if a guitar is tuned where an open G maj sounds in tune, when an open E maj is played the 3rd is sharp.

Setting the intonation at the bridge is really only good for setting the relationship of the overall string length to the octave (or where ever you chose). Conventional fret positions are a compromise and this system compensates to a large degree for that compromise.

JOOFO

mech

mongo2 · #5 06-14-2010, 01:53 PM

They don't seem to have one for bass.

Slowgypsy · #6 06-14-2010, 02:54 PM

I believe this device is more suited to guitar than bass, mainly because guitar is much more of a chordal instrument. This compensated nut is only effective on chords that use an open string. Once a string is fretted, the nut is completely out of the picture. So the usefulness for a bass would be minimal at best. FWIW, I'm sure a compensated nut makes a difference that can be measured or perhaps in a studio environment, but I am skeptical that the difference it makes would be noticed in a live performance situation. But... whatever floats your boat...

mech · #7 06-14-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Slowgypsy.....I believe this device is more suited to guitar than bass, mainly because guitar is much more of a chordal instrument. This compensated nut is only effective on chords that use an open string. Once a string is fretted, the nut is completely out of the picture. So the usefulness for a bass would be minimal at best. FWIW, I'm sure a compensated nut makes a difference that can be measured or perhaps in a studio environment, but I am skeptical that the difference it makes would be noticed in a live performance situation.

The nut is not totally out of the picture. It changes the scale length of the string a small percentage and with that, where the bridge saddle is set for intonation.

For the live performance part, it would depend on the type of music. If it's just distorted power chords/wanking, there's no need to go to the trouble. If it's clean picking/chords the difference can be heard.

Just to be clear, I put one on a friend's guitar and was pleasantly surprised that it works as advertised. Your milage may vary.

mech

mongo2 · #8 06-14-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowgypsy

I believe this device is more suited to guitar than bass, mainly because guitar is much more of a chordal instrument. This compensated nut is only effective on chords that use an open string. Once a string is fretted, the nut is completely out of the picture. So the usefulness for a bass would be minimal at best. FWIW, I'm sure a compensated nut makes a difference that can be measured or perhaps in a studio environment, but I am skeptical that the difference it makes would be noticed in a live performance situation. But... whatever floats your boat...

Musicman has used a compensated nut for several years.

Turnaround · #9 06-14-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mech

The nut is not totally out of the picture. It changes the scale length of the string a small percentage and with that, where the bridge saddle is set for intonation.mech

Sorry, but the nut could be located 5 yards behind the first fret, but as soon as the string is fretted, the nut will have no bearing on the frequency produced. The open string will be hugely out of tune though.

Music Man basses have had compensated nuts for some time now. I'm not a fan though. I think they create more problems than they solve. Good in theory - less so in practice IMO.

mech · #10 06-15-2010, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Turnaround.....Sorry, but the nut could be located 5 yards behind the first fret, but as soon as the string is fretted, the nut will have no bearing on the frequency produced.

You're missing the scale length change per string and that the open strings are tuned to pitch.

mech

Turnaround · #11 06-15-2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mech

You're missing the scale length change per string and that the open strings are tuned to pitch.

mech

I think we are saying the same thing here. If the string is tuned so that the note at the first fret is in tune, it won't matter where the nut is when fretted at one. The question is the value of compensating for the open string. I mean, why stop there? To really play in tune means individually adjusting each fret position for each string - like this:

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

And this won't work perfectly either since a little extra finger pressure or a slight sideways bend when fretting will drive the note sharp. A change of string brand or gauge will also probably put the tuning off as well. It's all a matter of degree....

mech · #12 06-15-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Turnaround.....I mean, why stop there? To really play in tune means individually adjusting each fret position for each string - like this:

I'm totally aware of the math and dynamics... different intervals necessary for different inversions, string gauge, fret height and shape, xyz axis finger pressure, limitations of mechanical systems used on instruments, etc.

The point is that this is so simple and so much better than what we've been putting up with since the dawn of the instrument, that in my humble opinion, anyone who can hear the un-tunedness and is bothered by it can now do something easy that, while not totally perfect, is a huge improvement.

mech

JustDavid · #13 06-19-2010, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mech

The point is that this is so simple and so much better than what we've been putting up with since the dawn of the instrument, that in my humble opinion, anyone who can hear the un-tunedness and is bothered by it can now do something easy that, while not totally perfect, is a huge improvement.

mech

Have you tried one of the Musicman nuts mentioned above? Or rented a bass that has one & tested your idea?

Let us know how it goes.

mech · #14 06-20-2010, 12:52 AM

Quote:

JustDavid...Or rented a bass that has one & tested your idea?

It's not my idea. Wish I was that sharp.

I'm not sure there would be a real benefit for bass. I am going to make one for one of my guitars when I get a little time.

mech

JustDavid · #15 06-20-2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mech

It's not my idea. Wish I was that sharp.

I'm not sure there would be a real benefit for bass. I am going to make one for one of my guitars when I get a little time.

mech

Just because you weren't first to have it doesn't mean it isn't your idea.

For the cost of a week's rental you can satisfy the question for yourself.