Explain Buzz Felton Tuning System?

[MyUsernameHere]

I always kind of wondered about the usefulness of this. I was looking at the Buzz Felton site and I must be missing something 'cause I just don't get it.

So there's a slightly wider nut and they adjust the intonation at the bridge. So what? Why does this even warrant a mention from manufacturers when its used on their basses?

I was looking at the MTD site and all of their basses have it. They have zero frets--what the heck is a wider nut going to matter? And even without a zero fret, the distance between the "open" position and first fret have to be the same on all basses using the same scale..right?

Also, adjusting the intonation at the bridge--what is this supposed to accomplish that you can't do yourself with a tuner and a screw driver?

I'm baffled. I figured there was some curvature or bracing in the neck design, or something like that. But no, nothing like that just the intonation adjustment and the nut.

Someone, if you know, please explain the usefulness of this to me, or even if it works at all.

[meev992]

bump for the OP.

All it looks like to me is a nut with a fancy lightning bolt on it.

[Basshole]

Buzz comes to your house, and tunes your bass.

If you pay the extra 10 bucks, he brings pizza.

[meev992]

Originally Posted by Basshole

Buzz comes to your house, and tunes your bass.

If you pay the extra 10 bucks, he brings pizza.

are you sure you're not confusing the Buzz Felton system with the Gibson Robot Guitar?

[ProgRapture]

I think he was one of the first nuts on the moon...

[maconbass]

Good question! I've owned two MTD's with the Buzz Feiten system and I don't get it either. I've looked earlier MTD's, without the system, and they have the same zero fret and Hipshot B bridge. Makes no sense.

BTW, I love the MTD's so this isn't a slam on the instrument itself.

[meev992]

apparently, none of us know anything about the Buzz Feiten System, looool

[jady]

It is a tempered tuning system. When you play chords certain notes need to be "out of tune" for the chord to sound right. For example, in a major chord the fifth needs to be slightly sharp and the third needs to be slightly flat to sound in tune. In a minor chord the third needs to be sharp just a bit. Horn players know all about this and adjust each note accordingly. A fixed pitched instrument like a guitar or piano uses tempered tunings to compensate for not being able to "lip" a note sharp or flat. Piano tuners have known about this for hundreds of years. They use a formula to adjust the tuning to a happy medium so that more chords sound more in tune more often.

Hope that helps a little. There is no gadgetry involved, just a different way of setting up the tuning and frets.

[MyUsernameHere]

Originally Posted by maconbass

BTW, I love the MTD's so this isn't a slam on the instrument itself.

By no means. Just using them as an example of a company that uses it.

I actually only decided to try and figure it out after one of the mods put his Z5 in the classifieds and got me thinking about it.

[MyUsernameHere]

Originally Posted by jady

It is a tempered tuning system. When you play chords certain notes need to be "out of tune" for the chord to sound right. For example, in a major chord the fifth needs to be slightly sharp and the third needs to be slightly flat to sound in tune. In a minor chord the third needs to be sharp just a bit. Horn players know all about this and adjust each note accordingly. A fixed pitched instrument like a guitar or piano uses tempered tunings to compensate for not being able to "lip" a note sharp or flat. Piano tuners have known about this for hundreds of years. They use a formula to adjust the tuning to a happy medium so that more chords sound more in tune more often.

Hope that helps a little.

Thanks, but not really.

I understand the problems its supposed to solve. I was actually hoping that someone could explain WHY it does this--the mechanical explanation behind the supposed improvements. Not what its supposed to accomplish.

[jady]

Originally Posted by MyUsernameHere

Thanks, but not really.

I understand the problems its supposed to solve. I was actually hoping that someone could explain WHY it does this--the mechanical explanation behind the supposed improvements. Not what its supposed to accomplish.

There is no mechanical explaination. All it is is a way of setting up the spacing between the nut, bridge, and frets so that the frequencies of the notes are slightly different than on a normally setup guitar. A special tuner is used that will tune the open strings to the correct frequencies also.

[meev992]

Originally Posted by jady

A special tuner is used that will tune the open strings to the correct frequencies also.

we need special tuners now

this is getting complicated.

[MyUsernameHere]

Originally Posted by jady

There is no mechanical explaination. All it is is a way of setting up the spacing between the nut, bridge, and frets so that the frequencies of the notes are slightly different than on a normally setup guitar. A special tuner is used that will tune the open strings to the correct frequencies also.

So...what you're telling me...is...they fix the intonation problems by...well...fixing the intonation with a magical tuner.

Guess that makes more sense than employing special guitar ferries at the factory--which is the explanation I was starting to lean toward.

[jady]

Originally Posted by meev992

we need special tuners now

this is getting complicated.

A lot of the newer better tuners already have the option onboard.

Our tuning systems in western music have changed quite a bit in the last 5-600 years, check this out for an interesting read...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament

[meev992]

Originally Posted by jady

A lot of the newer better tuners already have the option onboard.

Our tuning systems in western music have changed quite a bit in the last 5-600 years, check this out for an interesting read...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament

maybe we should all just start playing fretless again

[jady]

Originally Posted by MyUsernameHere

So...what you're telling me...is...they fix the intonation problems by...well...fixing the intonation with a magical tuner.

Guess that makes more sense than employing special guitar ferries at the factory--which is the explanation I was starting to lean toward.

No magic involved, think of it this way, you have three frets

|.............|.............|

How far apart the frets are determines what frequencies the individual notes are and how far apart they are from one another. If you move the frets like this....

|................|..........|

Then the first and last frets will produce the same frequencies but the fret in the middle will be a slightly different frequency. By adjusting the location of the frets and nut (which is often the open note unless there is a zero fret) you can determine different frequencies for each note and change the tuning system.This is what the Feiten system does.

There is no magic just slightly different fret spacings.

[GradyBass]

Ok, kinda got it.

So who's Buzz Felton? Sounds like a Toy Story name reject..



"To perfect tuning... and beyond!"

[meev992]

Originally Posted by GradyBass

"To perfect tuning... and beyond!"

beyond, being, a micro-tonal scale ?

[Jazz Ad]

Buzz Feiten is a moderately famous session musician. He played with Bob Dylan, Dave Weckl and a lot of others.
The system works very well where there are a lot of chords involved so on a folk guitar it can do miracle. Not so useful on bass.
Not much theory involved, it's a purely mechanical adjustment that takes in account parameters like finger pression on strings and higher tension at the ends of the strings. The typical "twelth root of 2" ratio used to implant frets forgets these.
It doesn't modify the tempered system, just tries to get nearer from it in a real world situation.

[lug]

From the webpage:
http://www.buzzfeiten.com/howitworks/howitworks.htm

What I don't understand is once you fret a chord, how does the nut position effect anything. It's seems similar to the argument that extending the strings beyond the saddle or nut somehow effects the tension.