Extreme fret rattle

[SMILEYSIXX]

So a few months ago, I swapped the necks of my fretless Jazz and fretted Precision. A little difficulty pputting the fretless neck on the Precision, but the Jazz was fine. My strings settled in fine and played great. I replaced the strings with the same tension, but the strings would hit the frets and often not make a sound besides the split second rattle of hitting the string. I loosened the truss rod, raised the action, but to no avail. Did I miss something?

[elgecko]

Same gauge or same tension...not the same thing.

[SMILEYSIXX]

Same gauge... I went from Rotosound flats to Ernie Ball rounds, so that may have an impact, but it still stands that I've loosened my truss rod a lot and the neck is looking a little curved under the strings' pressure, but on anything higher than the 7th or 8th fret, the sound dies because it's just pressed against frets further up.

[ubnomnar]

Have you tried raising the bridge saddles?

[SMILEYSIXX]

Yep, raised the action to the point that I could almost slide my finger under the strings without touching them.

[ubnomnar]

Originally Posted by SMILEYSIXX

Yep, raised the action to the point that I could almost slide my finger under the strings without touching them.

Can you please hold down the E-string at the 8th fret and measure the gap between the top of the last fret and the bottom of the E-string?

A rubber band and a pencil can be used as a makeshift capo.

Can you also capo the 1st and 15th frets and measure the neck relief at the 8th fret... the distance between the top of the 8th fret and the bottom of the E-string?

Do both of your necks have the same heel thickness?

[SMILEYSIXX]

Originally Posted by ubnomnar

Can you please hold down the E-string at the 8th fret and measure the gap between the top of the last fret and the bottom of the E-string?

A rubber band and a pencil can be used as a makeshift capo.

Can you also capo the 1st and 15th frets and measure the neck relief at the 8th fret... the distance between the top of the 8th fret and the bottom of the E-string?

Do both of your necks have the same heel thickness?

When I fret at the 8th, the string pretty much lies flat across the last 6 or so frets with maybe a millimeter or two of clearance on the last fret.

When I capo the 1st and hold down the 15th, the distance between the string and 8th fret is about two or three centimeters.

[allexcosta]

Like every bass that has strings replaced, it needs a setup...

Yes, even if it the strings are same brand, model, gauge and tension, as older strings behave differently from new ones...

Actually, bass guitars need adjustment every now and then.

[ubnomnar]

Originally Posted by SMILEYSIXX

When I fret at the 8th, the string pretty much lies flat across the last 6 or so frets with maybe a millimeter or two of clearance on the last fret.

When I capo the 1st and hold down the 15th, the distance between the string and 8th fret is about two or three centimeters.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.

You cannot guess-timate these measurements.

If your neck has "two or three centimeters" of relief (forward bow) then it is ready to launch arrows... as that is twenty to thirty times too much relief. Neck relief will normally measure less than 1mm (.039"). My Zon had .002" relief and my USATK is currently at .012"

You said that you replaced a set of flats (high tension) with a set of rounds (lower tension) and that you "loosened the truss rod a lot." You only need to loosen a truss rod enough to provide the desired amount of relief.

If you don't have experience adjusting truss rods and performing your own setups you should take your bass to a qualified tech.

However, if you are set on doing it yourself there are lots of great online resources. Here is a link to one that is good reading: Jerzy Drozd Basses - The Bass Art Company

After reading a setup guide, if you still want to do it yourself... and want some assistance... please use a steel rule to take some accurate measurements and post a few pics to show the situation.

[SMILEYSIXX]

Originally Posted by ubnomnar

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.

You cannot guess-timate these measurements.

If your neck has "two or three centimeters" of relief (forward bow) then it is ready to launch arrows... as that is twenty to thirty times too much relief. Neck relief will normally measure less than 1mm (.039"). My Zon had .002" relief and my USATK is currently at .012"

You said that you replaced a set of flats (high tension) with a set of rounds (lower tension) and that you "loosened the truss rod a lot." You only need to loosen a truss rod enough to provide the desired amount of relief.

If you don't have experience adjusting truss rods and performing your own setups you should take your bass to a qualified tech.

However, if you are set on doing it yourself there are lots of great online resources. Here is a link to one that is good reading: Jerzy Drozd Basses - The Bass Art Company

After reading a setup guide, if you still want to do it yourself... and want some assistance... please use a steel rule to take some accurate measurements and post a few pics to show the situation.

I misspoke, sorry. Where I said centimeters, I meant millimeters. When I said I loosenend the truss rod, I meant altogether it was a lot. At first, I didn't loosen it at all, then gave it a slight turn when I saw the problem. By the time I posted this, I had loosened it by about three full turns. I went back and tightened it and there's little to no difference. I've set up all five of my basses before with no issues, but as soon as I change the strings, this bass starts acting funny. I'm completely baffled.

[ubnomnar]

Originally Posted by SMILEYSIXX

I misspoke, sorry. Where I said centimeters, I meant millimeters. When I said I loosenend the truss rod, I meant altogether it was a lot. At first, I didn't loosen it at all, then gave it a slight turn when I saw the problem. By the time I posted this, I had loosened it by about three full turns. I went back and tightened it and there's little to no difference. I've set up all five of my basses before with no issues, but as soon as I change the strings, this bass starts acting funny. I'm completely baffled.

That's ok... I'm just a guy who sets up his own basses, too. But I've set up over 30 of them in the last 2 years.

It's a lot easier to figure out setup problems when you can see, hear, and feel the problem... working blind here.

Did you take a look at the neck relief diagrams in the Jerzy Drozd setup guide?

You have described a few setup concerns...
- Very high action
- Notes that fret out above the 8th fret
- *After loosening the truss rod three full turns... retightening it may not have made much difference.*

My thoughts are:

1) The safest course of action is to take it to a pro bass tech.

2) IF YOU STILL PLAN TO DIY... Part of the high action is a by product of excessive neck relief (you stated 2-3mm). Fender currently specs .25-.35mm neck relief when measured at the 8th fret while holding down the 1st and last frets.

Most of the advice I have come across suggests turning the truss rod nut no more than 1/4 turn at a time... and then letting the neck settle in... before additional tweaking. Having already loosened the nut 3 full turns before retightening it, the neck may need more time to settle in.
If it was my bass I would completely relieve the string tension and see if I could *gently* tighten the truss rod nut until I confirm (measure) that the neck relief was at least approaching the 1mm range from it's current 2-3mm. The bass will never play well without the proper amount of neck relief.

If the truss rod is non-responsive in reducing the relief... stop and take the bass to a tech.

3) The notes that fret out above the 8th fret can be caused by a number of things.
- Are you positive that the heel of the neck is completely seated flush the full depth of the neck pocket?
- Is there a shim in the neck pocket?
- Is the heel of the fretted neck thicker than the heel of the fretless neck you replaced?
- Have you tried raising the E-string saddle all the way to the absolute top of it's adjustment range as a test to see if you can at least get the high notes on one string to play without buzz regardless of the current neck relief?

There could be other problems as well.. but since you said that the neck played fine on the other body with the flat strings... the ones I listed above strike me as the most likely.

A good bass tech could probably identify the problem quickly and get you going.

[SMILEYSIXX]

Oddly enough, tightening the truss rod and lowering the action solved the problem. I'm baffled.

[JB696]

You had way too much relief.