Filing Badass 2 saddles??

mlove · #1 05-18-2007, 03:01 PM

I just bought a badass 2 bridge. Does anyone have any info or tips on filing the saddles? What type of file should i get? etc...

Thanks

masprague · #2 05-18-2007, 03:14 PM

are you supposed to file them??? I really didnt think you had to.......I'll keep an eye on this thread, I have a BAII coming soon.

mlove · #3 05-18-2007, 03:14 PM

I think you can get them with slotted saddles but mine is not.

NKUSigEp · #4 05-18-2007, 03:21 PM

Personal preference if you want them slotted or not. You don't need to and it doesn't really make any difference if they are or not. You string will be in constant contact with that part of the bridge at all times anyways.

Foamy · #5 05-18-2007, 03:22 PM

Leo Quan advises to file them, so I would.
Use a square to line up the grooves with your existing grooves. Use a square up against your file to get the slots started so that they are straight. They are really not that deep, so don't overdo it.

Quote:
For years, we have informed builders and players that each of our string saddles must be file cut with round files equal to the diameter of each string. Sometimes the installers or resellers do not inform the players, and the result is a less than optimum sound.

mlove · #6 05-18-2007, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanter_Tim

Leo Quan advises to file them, so I would.
Use a square to line up the grooves with your existing grooves. Use a square up against your file to get the slots started so that they are straight. They are really not that deep, so don't overdo it.

is there a certain type if file to use??? or just any small round one

Foamy · #7 05-18-2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlove

is there a certain type if file to use??? or just any small round one

I would not use a small round one (because I don't want to own a bunch of otherwise useless tools) - I'd use a small triangular file so the grooves are more of a "V" shape, and again, not all too deep. I'm talking about a small file, like from a hobby store, or from like Home Depot. 1/4" on each side max - that'll give you a nice sharp V. Look at the grooves on your current saddle, they are likely rather shallow. And the square is important so the grooves are straight.
:-)

SGT. Pepper · #8 05-18-2007, 07:10 PM

Go to Sears, Home Depot, or even a Building and Tractor supply store and get a set of needle files. You want to use the triangular one to cut into the saddle, then use the round small one to smooth out and size out the groove. Don't go haywire, a little is all you need. Just enough to hold the string in place.

202dy · #9 05-18-2007, 07:41 PM

The slot should be round. The depth should be half the diameter of the string.

The easiest way to do this is with a set of nut files. If slotting bridges and making nuts on a regular basis is in your future, then a good set of needle files will do the trick. You can rough in with the triangle file but be careful. It is easy to blow right past the ideal depth. Ultimately it is best to stop the rough in just shy of the proper string depth and finish with the round file allowing some margin for error while bringing the slot to depth. Finish up with some 600 grit wet or dry paper wrapped around the shaft of a drill bit that is ~.020" smaller than the diameter of the slot.

Airscorp · #10 05-18-2007, 09:17 PM

+1 ^

Below is a picture of the file that I used for my BAII mod.

I think it's called a clockmaker's file or something.. Remember that I'm in Greece

The only reason I did file mine was to allign the strings with the PU poles.. In the picture is my allignment with the old bridge and PUs (not the best as you can see).. That is also why the bridge PU is slightly larger than the neck (on a Jazz at least)

Go slow and be careful! Always leave room for error.. I had a (pretty cool/weird sounding

) buzz on the G string when I did mine and had to file just a bit more to get it right.

202dy · #11 05-18-2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airscorp

+1 ^

Below is a picture of the file that I used for my BAII mod.

I think it's called a clockmaker's file or something.. Remember that I'm in Greece

The only reason I did file mine was to allign the strings with the PU poles.. In the picture is my allignment with the old bridge and PUs (not the best as you can see).. That is also why the bridge PU is slightly larger than the neck (on a Jazz at least)

Go slow and be careful! Always leave room for error.. I had a (pretty cool/weird sounding

) buzz on the G string when I did mine and had to file just a bit more to get it right.

Good point. The beauty of unslotted saddles is that the spacing is controlled by the person who does the installation. If the instrument, neck, or pickups require a different spacing then it can be accomodated in the installation and filing.

masprague · #12 05-19-2007, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

Good point. The beauty of unslotted saddles is that the spacing is controlled by the person who does the installation. If the instrument, neck, or pickups require a different spacing then it can be accomodated in the installation and filing.

So it seems to me that filing is not needed, unless you absolutely want it.....I figure that it would be needed say if I was playing in a punk band with a pick where I would be hitting the string so hard that they would actually slide around a bit.

But for just fingerplaying and slapping, in a low-light jazz/blues setting, then filing is not absolutely necessary.

Foamy · #13 05-19-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masprague

So it seems to me that filing is not needed, unless you absolutely want it.....I figure that it would be needed say if I was playing in a punk band with a pick where I would be hitting the string so hard that they would actually slide around a bit.

But for just fingerplaying and slapping, in a low-light jazz/blues setting, then filing is not absolutely necessary.

Well, Leo Quan does not agree with you here. I would tend to side with the guy who designed it.
What the above post is trying to say is that the installer can make the slots to his own specifications, not that it should not be slotted.

Jo6Pak · #14 05-19-2007, 09:25 AM

I've used them both ways, no slots and slots that I cut. Trangle vs Round: Well, at least START with the triangle to get the groove cut where you want it. If you want to finish up with round, do so, although I personally feel that leaving it as a notch, rather than an actual groove that runs the length of the saddle, will suffice. If I ever do it again (which I won't, now that Quan sells them already grooved), I would just notch it, not much, just enuff to seat the string, on the side where the string first hits the saddle (bridge side) and let the string break naturally over the neck side. It was a pain in the ass when I slotted my own and it REALLY sux if you f~ck up, cuz then its ruined (which I almost did). Notch, no notch, it all personal preference, but, as stated above, the guy who invented the thing probably knows something we don't...

202dy · #15 05-19-2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masprague

So it seems to me that filing is not needed, unless you absolutely want it.....I figure that it would be needed say if I was playing in a punk band with a pick where I would be hitting the string so hard that they would actually slide around a bit.

But for just fingerplaying and slapping, in a low-light jazz/blues setting, then filing is not absolutely necessary.

If the saddles are not slotted there are two problems that can occur. The first problem is that the little indent is not deep enough to hold the string in place. If the player's technique is anything beyond the lightest of touch when playing hammerstroke then the string will move on the saddle. At some point the player has to push the string back into the little indent. This can be frustrating. The second problem deals with how the string breaks over the front of the saddle. If the it is not slotted, the witness point is somewhere over the rear of the saddle. If the string is pushed down to make a witness point, the problem is exacerbated. There are now many witness points depending on how hard the string is plucked. Talk about potential intonation problems. The scale length is now dependent on how hard the string is hit.

Sometimes work like this is beyond the average hobby player. Sometimes it more than a pro wants to take on. If this is the real reason behind not wanting to mill the saddles, take it to a luthier. It won't take them long to perform the service and shouldn't cost much, especially if you buy a set of strings or have them do a full setup at the same time.

Jo6Pak · #16 05-19-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

...take it to a luthier. It won't take them long to perform the service and shouldn't cost much, especially if you buy a set of strings or have them do a full setup at the same time.

Best advice yet...

Fo' Shizzle · #17 05-19-2007, 09:58 AM

That's a nice bridge you got there. Do you want to actually get to use it?

The question you asked tells me you should not come close to trying to file your own saddles.

Take it to a pro.

Foamy · #18 05-19-2007, 10:24 AM

I am happy with mine which are grooves done by a triangular file. If you continue and groove them with the circular file, you're going to be limited to using the same size strings. You can always groove them larger, but never smaller. If you want larger strings, you'd have to make the grooves larger, then you can't go back. If you want to use smaller strings, then you'd need new saddles - which are not that expensive anyhow.
So, I'll keep mine as notches - that's how they came on my Geddy. Perhaps the intent was to leave guides for circular grooves, but as it is I have sustain for days. :-)

masprague · #19 05-19-2007, 10:49 AM

I didnt not mean to quote the guy above me......

What I was implying is that this whole thing comes down to personal preference. I mean I am sure that Leo wants us to file them, and that is great for those who do, but Fender suggests I use their replacement parts as well, but who does..

what I am saying is that get the bridge and play on it, if you want to file them, then do it, if not then dont........

T-Bird · #20 05-19-2007, 03:09 PM

Hi.

IMHO a universal replacement part, whether it's a bridge, saddle, nut, or a part completely unrelated to an musical instrument is designed to have some flexibility in terms of installation.

The lack of a slot in a saddle is just for that, to narrow down the needed parts in manufacturing, and by doing so cutting the cost and giving the user the needed freedom of choice in the same time. And that IMO doesn't mean that the saddles are better off without slots.

I personally wouldn't dream of not slotting the saddles unless dealing with an acoustic bass, or an electric with a bone saddle and a piezo.

And yes, half round slots for me, not triangular for several reasons, one being the fact that I use only roundwounds.

Just my 0,02€
Sam