filing frets...is it as easy as it sounds?

xshawnxearthx · #1 10-21-2007, 08:00 PM

well i just purchased this p-bass. i have set it up exactly how i have my 03 set up yet when i get up into the high register the last fret causes a buzz. on the A and D strings only. it's a 98 that has an 03 bridge and it is set up exactly the same. the nut slots look ok(like my 03) and everything is set up identical.

now i do not generally go past the 12th fret but i ha ve one or two riffs where i go high to give it a little flare. how easy is it to file the fret? should their be something else i should look at? i've really though of everything and i figure if i just hit up the last fret with a file and it will solve my problems.....

pkr2 · #2 10-22-2007, 06:20 AM

If you have to ask, leave it alone and find yourself a good repair person. It is very difficult to do properly and requires tools that aren't normally found in the average diy shop.

A good setup may help, or even eliminate the prob.

xshawnxearthx · #3 10-22-2007, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkr2

If you have to ask, leave it alone and find yourself a good repair person. It is very difficult to do properly and requires tools that aren't normally found in the average diy shop.

A good setup may help, or even eliminate the prob.

the set up is fine and everything plays properly everywhere elses, it's just that last fret.

oh well, guess i'm bringing it to the repair shop.

mgfretman · #4 10-22-2007, 08:23 AM

I use the Thomas& Ginex system for getting rid of buzzes. It worked like a charm on my '73 precision and all of my guitars. I got it on ebay a few years back...lots of guys using this now for light dressing jobs. For 20 bucks it beats the alternative.

202dy · #5 10-22-2007, 08:42 AM

A quick look (that's all you get, folks) at their video demonstrates that the T&G system would not address a high fret at the end of a fingerboard very well if at all. Using this system will cause the three or frets adjacent to the last fret to be increasingly taller as they march toward the end of the fingerboard. That is the opposite of what it should be. The last frets should be completely level with one another or have a little fall away to the end of the fingerboard.

mgfretman · #6 10-22-2007, 09:10 AM

I don't know what you are trying to say..but I have to tell you again the system works great. The first fret's height is a non-issue anyway. It can be higher than the other frets and not cause a buzz. It's when the lower fret is LOW that a buzz is created which decreases the clearance to the next higher fret. The way the system works is the tool is worked (with abrasive) while the neck is under tension and is short enough (about four inches long) that it doesn't span across more than two or three frets at a time. It's an ingenious system and is being recognised by more and more players. I hear Sam Ash Music carries them now in all of their stores. The luthier/repair guys naturally put it down but the feedback these guys got on their ebay auction page tells the whole story better than I can. I won't take this thread any further because I don't want to appear as a shill, but if you have to critique another posters comment please do some due diligence so you know better what you're talking about.

mgfretman · #7 10-22-2007, 09:32 AM

I have to clarify. I thought you were concerned with the first fret in your remarks, because what you said didn't make any sense to me about the last fret. If you had first hand experience using this kit you would know that the condition you describe would be impossible to achieve if you followed the instructions like I did. It's obvious to me that the original poster has a high last fret. I would first tap it down to make asure it's seated all the way into the fingerboard. If that doesn't work a spot leveling is needed, and the T&G kit will do that. How anyone can make a judgement about something without first hand knowledge is beyond me.

202dy · #8 10-22-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgfretman

I don't know what you are trying to say..but I have to tell you again the system works great. The first fret's height is a non-issue anyway. It can be higher than the other frets and not cause a buzz. It's when the lower fret is LOW that a buzz is created which decreases the clearance to the next higher fret. The way the system works is the tool is worked (with abrasive) while the neck is under tension and is short enough (about four inches long) that it doesn't span across more than two or three frets at a time. It's an ingenious system and is being recognised by more and more players. I hear Sam Ash Music carries them now in all of their stores. The luthier/repair guys naturally put it down but the feedback these guys got on their ebay auction page tells the whole story better than I can. I won't take this thread any further because I don't want to appear as a shill, but if you have to critique another posters comment please do some due diligence so you know better what you're talking about.

The OP claims that the last fret is high. Geometry dictates that when this simple system is used that it all future geometry is dictated by the lie of the frets. While it is true that when the first fret is a bit high there will be no buzzing. But depending on the height of the first fret it can be a problem in that the guitar will not be comfortable play in the open position and first positions.

The T&G system, IIRC, was first suggested by Bryan Gallup and noted on an earlier repair tape by Dan Erlewine dating from the early '90's. Many of us played around with this idea. It seems to work well enough for light fret dressing when the frets are already level. It fails miserably when there are individual high frets or any rutting that cannot be lightly kissed off prior to recrowning. The problem is when there is a individual high fret or a few localized high frets, possibly indicating a hump in the fingerboard. The offending fret must be worked individually to a reasonable height and then a long leveler is used to blend it in with the surrounding frets. This system cannot and does not address this issue.

One of the foundations of the repair forum is the respect that each of us shows one another.

mgfretman · #9 10-22-2007, 10:20 AM

>The problem is when there is a individual high fret or a few localized high frets, possibly indicating a hump in the fingerboard. The offending fret must be worked individually to a reasonable height and then a long leveler is used to blend it in with the surrounding frets. This system cannot and does not address this issue.

You are describing a condition which is not the result of fret wear but a defect in the fingerboard. I don't think the T&G system is for use on defective fingerboards. It's not supposed to be a fix-all solution to every neck problem. You at least admit that it works fine for light fret dressing, exactly what it's designed to do...but you didn't say that at first. You put it down without explaining why.

pkr2 · #10 10-22-2007, 11:13 AM

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-tech...ing-kit-3.html

Seems like Mgfretman is creating dissension everywhere he goes.

The techs on this forum seem to have reached the same conclusion as 202.

The results of a hands on trial by an unbiased 3rd party indicate that the system is pretty much junk that doesn't deliver what it promises. The mfgrs. claim that it recrowns the frets after grinding them flat. Not according to the test that was done.

Sorry, Mgfretman, your dog don't hunt and I believe you are shilling pure junk. IMO you are spamming the forum and not telling the truth.

mgfretman · #11 10-22-2007, 11:23 AM

http://reviews.photoweborama.com/all.../fret/fret.htm

I'm not a spammer.

Mod edit: please reread the usage agreement.

xshawnxearthx · #12 10-22-2007, 12:52 PM

great, thanks guys. now i have to call a local luthier who does repairs. not something i'm really looking forward to. maybe i'll just learn to play lighter as i go higher. it's only a problem when i am 3-4 frets from the bottom.

xshawnxearthx · #13 10-22-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua

Setup is the combination of all the variables, including how hard you play. A repairperson should be able to at least diagnose the problem at a minimum.

Have you tried using a straightedge to help establish if it is even a high fret to begin with?

no because for a straight edge to work, doesn't the neck have to be dead straight? because i generally give the neck a slight bow so that i can play hard. all up and down the neck is fine until you hit like 4 from the bottom. i've tried bringing up the saddles as a whole but it get's stupid high before the buzz goes away. like i am maxing out the screw and it is then uncomfortable.

202dy · #14 10-22-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xshawnxearthx

no because for a straight edge to work, doesn't the neck have to be dead straight? because i generally give the neck a slight bow so that i can play hard. all up and down the neck is fine until you hit like 4 from the bottom. i've tried bringing up the saddles as a whole but it get's stupid high before the buzz goes away. like i am maxing out the screw and it is then uncomfortable.

This is when short straight edges are used. Check out the Fret Rocker from Stew Mac. This tool is used to find individual high frets. Here's how: Span three frets. Rock the tool between the outside frets. If it doesn't rock there is no problem. Use it under each string. A fret can be high in just one spot. BTW, you may prefer to swivel the tool rather than rock it. It makes it easier to find the spot that is just a couple of thousandths out of whack and causing an intermittent buzz. When investigating the first or last fret, use a strong light to see a space between the next fret and the straight edge. Or you can use a feeler gauge. If there is a space then the first or last fret is high.

Scott in Dallas · #15 10-22-2007, 03:30 PM

Sounds like a high fret to me. As already said, a small straightedge should be able to detect it. Sometimes a high fret can be tapped down if it's just a matter of seating it properly. If you are interested in the process, you'd probably be best off finding someone that will fix the problem and allow you to watch so you can learn how to do it for yourself in the future. That would be preferable to getting yourself into trouble on a relatively expensive instrument.

Good luck.

IB3K · #16 10-23-2007, 11:15 AM

On this kind of stuff it's important to remember that even if you don't/can't do the work yourself, you can at least be very specific about what you see to be the problem. Anyway it helps you to understand how to go about shaking down an instrument. So if I were you, I would first take measurements off of the bass that was working well. You will need a capo and a ruler that is very precise (machinists rule). I got this one because I can read it, but this kind of rule is what I am talking about. http://fly.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/ruler.html You'll want to keep these measurements anyway for the future, just leave them in the case.

I would get the string height of each string on the 1st 12th and with a capo on 17th and 20th frets. Then get a pickup height, saddle heights off the body and a string height off the body as well. Finally check the relief at the most bowed point in each neck using a straightedge (you could use a string and a capo) and see where on the fretboard the deepest bow occurs. Then compare the two. If you take it to someone then ask them to get you measurements on their own and compare with what you have found.

The buzzing could be a result of a few different things. It's kind of odd that you would get a buzz on the middle strings. That leads me to think that either the fret is not totally seated or maybe the E and G are way out of alignment or maybe the bridge is set flat so it does not follow the radius of the fretboard. I suppose it's possible that all the frets above these on the end have been worn so much that they are concave and the other higher ones haven't been ground as much by the strings so you get buzz. It could be that a shim was used when the bridge was replaced and kicked up the fretboard's tongue, then you set the saddles without a radius.

xshawnxearthx · #17 10-23-2007, 03:37 PM

bass has barely been played prior to me owning it. i have a tool to make sure the radius is set up properly. i should say this, i'm pretty versed in set ups, and the set up is great. i do set ups for some of my co workers and band members and i get nothing but compliments.

i'm ordering the straight edge rocker tonight. i have a feeling it's either high or not pressed in properly. it looks like there is a slight amount of space between the middle of the fret and the fingerboard, so it is probably that.