Filing a nut with the strings?

[MarkMcCombs]

I'm pretty comfortable with most set-up procedures, and have had good success in the past, and I have some good resources and work slowly. However, I've never attempted to cut or file the string slots in a nut. My new bass has quite high action at the nut, and I'd like to bring it down as carefully and inexpensively as possible (don't want to invest in nut files).

Is it possible just to loosen the strings and then use them to "file" the nut? Might take forever, don't know.

Thanks,

Mark

[bassteban]

I've done just that w/an old string in a hacksaw frame. Doesn't cut real quickly, and heats up. But it will cut a very snug slot.

[Zooberwerx]

Nut files are the tools of choice but an expensive option....here's a cheaper method:

Get yourself a complete set of drill bits and very fine grit emery cloth (not paper...it won't work properly!). Select a bit slightly narrower than the slot as the addition of the emery cloth will widen the diameter. Wrap a small piece of emery around the drill bit and gently work back and forth while maintaining proper angle. Stop frequently and check your progress. Unless the string is binding, avoid widening the nut slot. Keep in mind that a little goes a long way...its easy to overcut a nut if not careful.

Riis

[RBrownBass]

Go buy a set of nut files or precision round files. You'll eventually use them again.

[JTE]

Originally Posted by Auriaprottu

Go buy a set of nut files or precision round files. You'll eventually use them again.

I don't know abot that... I've got six basses and four guitars now, and I haven't touched my fret files in about six years. Of course, I haven't bought anything in six years either...

The point is, if you're only going to do this once or twice, then it's a big investment. The drill bit advice can work, but another option is to find someone who makes jewlery. I got some very fine needle files from a local jeweler a long time ago, and they're perfect for cutting nuts on basses. I stil need a very small Exacto blade for the first strings on a guitar, but the needle file is a good choice for the bigger strings.

jte

[MarkMcCombs]

thanks Zoob, I like that idea. I'm going to the hardware store right now.

MLM

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Nut files are the tools of choice but an expensive option....here's a cheaper method:

Get yourself a complete set of drill bits and very fine grit emery cloth (not paper...it won't work properly!). Select a bit slightly narrower than the slot as the addition of the emery cloth will widen the diameter. Wrap a small piece of emery around the drill bit and gently work back and forth while maintaining proper angle. Stop frequently and check your progress. Unless the string is binding, avoid widening the nut slot. Keep in mind that a little goes a long way...its easy to overcut a nut if not careful.

Riis

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by MarkMcCombs

thanks Zoob, I like that idea. I'm going to the hardware store right now.

MLM

Get yourself some feeler gauges at Pep Boys while you're at it. String > 1st fret gap should be about .003" while fretting the 3rd fret. I aim for .004" - .005" as it gives me some "wiggle room" for tweaks. FTR, I own and use nut files and precision files but the drill bit / emery does the trick for the final touch-up.

Let us know how it works out.

Riis

[MarkMcCombs]

Wow, that took longer than I thought! Spent about 3.5 hours last night between the nut, bridge saddles, truss rod, and intonation. So much for thinking this could be a profession on the side. It came out great, however.

A few things I learned.....

- a set of drill bits with the emery cloth worked great, but you likely won't have, or find, a bit small enough for the G string. A small piece of non-braided wire will work better, or maybe a paper clip. For each string, you will need to use a drill bit far smaller than the string slot, as the emery cloth bulks it up quite a bit.

- if you don't have feeler gauges, most office/copy paper is .004", which is more than close enough for the 1st fret when the 3rd fret is fretted. I actually used a paper that is about .007", but 3 thousandths doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I'm in the printing trade, so I have access to specs on different papers, though I really should get a micrometer.

It was surprising how badly this Squire P-bass was set up when I received it. I should have measured before I started, but my guess is the 1st fret when the 3rd fret is fretted was about .04" or so - way high.

My hope was that I would buy a cheap bass and get it to play and sound like a "not" cheap bass. I'm happy to say that I've accomplished this. Yeah.

MLM

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Get yourself some feeler gauges at Pep Boys while you're at it. String > 1st fret gap should be about .003" while fretting the 3rd fret. I aim for .004" - .005" as it gives me some "wiggle room" for tweaks. FTR, I own and use nut files and precision files but the drill bit / emery does the trick for the final touch-up.

Let us know how it works out.

Riis

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by MarkMcCombs

Wow, that took longer than I thought! Spent about 3.5 hours last night between the nut, bridge saddles, truss rod, and intonation. So much for thinking this could be a profession on the side. It came out great, however.

A few things I learned.....

- a set of drill bits with the emery cloth worked great, but you likely won't have, or find, a bit small enough for the G string. A small piece of non-braided wire will work better, or maybe a paper clip. For each string, you will need to use a drill bit far smaller than the string slot, as the emery cloth bulks it up quite a bit.

- if you don't have feeler gauges, most office/copy paper is .004", which is more than close enough for the 1st fret when the 3rd fret is fretted. I actually used a paper that is about .007", but 3 thousandths doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I'm in the printing trade, so I have access to specs on different papers, though I really should get a micrometer.

It was surprising how badly this Squire P-bass was set up when I received it. I should have measured before I started, but my guess is the 1st fret when the 3rd fret is fretted was about .04" or so - way high.

My hope was that I would buy a cheap bass and get it to play and sound like a "not" cheap bass. I'm happy to say that I've accomplished this. Yeah.

MLM

Congrats on a job well-done! Couple of comments;

Yes, the G slot is a PIA. Forgot to mention it but I use the micro drill bits that came with my Dremel. The smallest is actually thinner than a sewing needle but still accommodates the finer emery cloth.

I've used printer paper in a pinch but the feeler gauges are a must if you're rough-cutting a nut blank. I bought a cheap set at Pep Boys; the smallest is .0015" I believe. Word of caution: the set came out of the package dripping with lubricating oil.

Riis

[Xolair]

BTW, I was also wondering if my Squier Precision's nut is in proper "condition".

Just measured the string height in a few places from the E string, and when measured from the 17th fret the space between the fret and the string is about 3.5mm right now. Also measured from the 1st and the 2nd fret, and while on the 2nd fret there's maybe 2.5mm of space, it drops to a rough 1-1.5mm on the 1st fret. Is the height supposed to drop that suddenly on that first fret? The string height varies a bit on each string of course.

[dmusic148]

No, it shouldn't drop that much- it means you also need to deepen your nut slots-same problem the OP had. Doesn't it feel stiff at the first few frets?

[CPplaysBASS]

Originally Posted by Xolair

BTW, I was also wondering if my Squier Precision's nut is in proper "condition".

Just measured the string height in a few places from the E string, and when measured from the 17th fret the space between the fret and the string is about 3.5mm right now. Also measured from the 1st and the 2nd fret, and while on the 2nd fret there's maybe 2.5mm of space, it drops to a rough 1-1.5mm on the 1st fret. Is the height supposed to drop that suddenly on that first fret? The string height varies a bit on each string of course.

Nut slots are correct ... on my P's, there is exactly 1mm clearance at the first fret, and no buzz, with 3mm at the third fret. I keep the neck relief at .012mm on the 8th fret with a capo on the first fret (holding down the string at the last fret).

I don't think I could even get my action as low as 3.5mm at the 17th fret though. Mine is quite low as it is at 6mm, with the saddle for the E string just off the bridge plate.

Most importantly is whether it's comfortable for you to play across the neck without excessive buzzing.

Back on topic ... I just filed down a nut using my old strings and it worked perfectly. They were rough and ready Rotosounds!

MAJOR EDIT: I posted the above prior to my morning coffee ... I was thinking of the "units" on the 6-inch ruler, which are actually 1/64 of an inch (or 0.39mm). So my measurements are actually 1/64 at the first fret, 3/64 at the third, 6/64 (or 3/32) at the 17th. Sorry for any confusion!

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by CPplaysBASS

Nut slots are correct ... on my P's, there is exactly 1mm clearance at the first fret, and no buzz, with 3mm at the third fret.

Yes, but you should measure at the first while fretting the third. .003" is optimum, like Zoob said.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Xolair

BTW, I was also wondering if my Squier Precision's nut is in proper "condition".

Just measured the string height in a few places from the E string, and when measured from the 17th fret the space between the fret and the string is about 3.5mm right now. Also measured from the 1st and the 2nd fret, and while on the 2nd fret there's maybe 2.5mm of space, it drops to a rough 1-1.5mm on the 1st fret. Is the height supposed to drop that suddenly on that first fret? The string height varies a bit on each string of course.

Probably not the best way to measure nut tolerance but at least you recognize how it ties into your set-up as a whole. I still prefer to fret each string at the 3rd fret and measure the gap betweenst the string and 1st fret. A single sheet of printer paper will suffice as makeshift feeler gauge. Your measurements sound fairly close, though.

Isn't this fun?

Riis

[Xolair]

Originally Posted by CPplaysBASS

Nut slots are correct ... on my P's, there is exactly 1mm clearance at the first fret, and no buzz, with 3mm at the third fret. I keep the neck relief at .012mm on the 8th fret with a capo on the first fret (holding down the string at the last fret).

I don't think I could even get my action as low as 3.5mm at the 17th fret though. Mine is quite low as it is at 6mm, with the saddle for the E string just off the bridge plate.

Most importantly is whether it's comfortable for you to play across the neck without excessive buzzing.

Back on topic ... I just filed down a nut using my old strings and it worked perfectly. They were rough and ready Rotosounds!

Originally Posted by dmusic148

No, it shouldn't drop that much- it means you also need to deepen your nut slots-same problem the OP had. Doesn't it feel stiff at the first few frets?

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Yes, but you should measure at the first while fretting the third. .003" is optimum, like Zoob said.

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Probably not the best way to measure nut tolerance but at least you recognize how it ties into your set-up as a whole. I still prefer to fret each string at the 3rd fret and measure the gap betweenst the string and 1st fret. A single sheet of printer paper will suffice as makeshift feeler gauge. Your measurements sound fairly close, though.

Isn't this fun?

Riis

Yeah, managed to get the action as low as 3.5mm, as stock it was something like 4-4.5mm on the same string. Played with a pick at first but now as I've started to move to finger playing I've noticed a slight buzz on the strings... it still was there as stock, but not necessarily as much as it is now with finger playing. But then again I've tweaked (read: messed up) the settings as well since then.

Nah, the first frets don't really feel stiff, but I did notice that when I press a random fret, the E string is colliding on almost every single fret above it. Is that normal? Seems to do it on pretty much every string. Not sure if it could cause a buzz this way, but seems possible.

EDIT: Just measured the neck relief and hopefully it went right. Got roughly 1mm or even close to a 1.5mm on the E string. And as a matter of fact, the 1st fret does feel a bit tight to play. Does this all mean the truss rod's way too loose?

[Ric5]

I use a dremmel tool. If you take your time and work carefully it will work fine.

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Xolair

, but I did notice that when I press a random fret, the E string is colliding on almost every single fret above it. Is that normal? Seems to do it on pretty much every string. Not sure if it could cause a buzz this way, but seems possible.

EDIT: Just measured the neck relief and hopefully it went right. Got roughly 1mm or even close to a 1.5mm on the E string. Does it mean the truss rod's way too loose?

Best way to measure relief is to apply a capo to the first fret, then fret the last fret, and measure at the 7th or 8th fret. Adjust truss rod until you have between .010"/.015" clearance there. If you don't have a capo, you can do it by fretting the first fret with your left hand, and pressing the string to the last fret with your right elbow. Keep in mind, this measurement method removes the nut and bridge from the equation, which is a good thing. Do those separately.

[Xolair]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Best way to measure relief is to apply a capo to the first fret, then fret the last fret, and measure at the 7th or 8th fret. Adjust truss rod until you have between .010"/.015" clearance there. If you don't have a capo, you can do it by fretting the first fret with your left hand, and pressing the string to the last fret with your right elbow. Keep in mind, this measurement method removes the nut and bridge from the equation, which is a good thing. Do those separately.

Yah, there's still roughly 1-1.5mm of clearance on the 7th fret, guess I got it right before. What now? Is that too much or too little? .010 is 1mm right?

[John Wentzien]

I use the corner of a dollar-bill as a feeler guage for nut filing.

[dmusic148]

Far too much relief. 1mm = .039"
You want between .25mm/.38mm. You'll need to raise the bridge after this adjustment, probably.