First Refretting Project

[INTP]

This was my first bass, a Ventura copy of a jazz, and while it holds sentimental value, I know it will never be worth much money. It actually sounds pretty decent (it has surprising sustain, and a decent tone since I swapped the pickups), but the frets are in pretty bad shape. It appears that they were pretty small to start with, but they're quite flat now. It makes it challenging to play because it will buzz if you don't apply generous pressure and land your fingers in just the right spots.

I am planning to refret it myself. While I have done other work on instruments, fretwork is new to me. From the research that I've done so far, this looks like something I could do. I've done my own setups, along with some parts swapping, and am generally competent mechanically. I'm not particularly worried about messing up, since the bass is not worth much, and not quite playable now. I figure the worst case is that I'll have to do it twice.

My plan is to get some wide/medium sized fretwire, and buy the necessary tools to install and dress the frets. The "Essential Fretting Tool Kit" at Stew Mac looks interesting, but I wonder if the leveling tool is long enough. I'd appreciate if you have any suggestions on what tools are needed.

I'm interested from those with more experience what suggestions you may have before I take any steps. Your constructive comments are welcome.

Assuming this all goes well, I have a couple of other, nicer instruments that would benefit from fret leveling, and another guitar that could probably use some new frets as well. So the tools and experience should have ongoing value.

Thanks!

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Frets:

[SamanthaCay]

You’ll need a fret bender to bend the fret wire to the proper radius before pressing them in, otherwise they’ll be popping up at the ends. Also using a press to install your frets will make things go much smother. I did this by retrofitting a small radius block to a bar clamp and as well be prepared to glue in the frets as this is common practice on refrets because of the slots being worn from pulling out the old frets. I probably missed a lot but that’s just a few things I thought of that might help. I think the best thing you can do is watch a professional do it as that will help you be more prepared for the real thing. oh yeah your bass has binding so you’ll need a pair of fret tang nippers. also I would have posted links to all of this stuff but for some reason I can’t get it to work but you can find the bender, press (if you choose not to make your own) and the nippers on stewmac’s website.

[Benjamin Strange]

The level that comes with that kit isn't long enough - to get the frets all level with each other, it makes sense to have a level that runs the full length of the neck, no?

Fretwork requires a HUGE learning curve to do right. Be prepared to mess it up quite a few times before you get the hang of it.

Absolutely essential tools: a neck jig, a long leveling beam, radiused sanding beams, fretwire bender, a fret press, a decent fret dressing tool, and a damn good set of eyes.

[vejesse]

Can't do a fret job without a neck jig? Nonsense.

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by vejesse

Can't do a fret job without a neck jig? Nonsense.

You can't do one perfectly without something keeping the neck straight under tension, no.

[vejesse]

We're talking about a guy just getting started, right?

If that's the case, don't worry about a neck fixture unless you need it for a problem neck. It's possible to do fine work without it and as you progress they'll be room for that later.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

You can't do one perfectly without something keeping the neck straight under tension, no.

I don't use a jig, but do level the frets w/ strings on. Shows *exactly* what's going on, in the real world.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by JLS

I don't use a jig, but do level the frets w/ strings on. Shows *exactly* what's going on, in the real world.

Goes to show that there's more than one way to accomplish the same end.

My concern for this first-timer is that he is trying his first refret on a bound fingerboard. That adds a level of complication that is best tackled when one has had some experience on an unbound board. But with care and patience it is do-able - lots of each.

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by JLS

I don't use a jig, but do level the frets w/ strings on. Shows *exactly* what's going on, in the real world.

How the heck do you do a fret level with the strings on? No offense, but that sounds really odd - how are you going about it?

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by JLS

I don't use a jig, but do level the frets w/ strings on. Shows *exactly* what's going on, in the real world.

Originally Posted by Turnaround

Goes to show that there's more than one way to accomplish the same end.

Not necessarily. Sometimes there's just a right way and a wrong way to do things.

[Craig_S]

Bejamin, How was a fret leveling done before the advent of the neck jig?

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by Craig_S

Bejamin, How was a fret leveling done before the advent of the neck jig?

Well, as far as I know, the didn't do it with the strings on. Not to mention that they weren't nearly as accurate.

But even without a neck jig, I would say that the beam used to level frets should span the entire length of the board. If not, there's no way of getting the frets at either end of the neck even with each other.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

Not necessarily. Sometimes there's just a right way and a wrong way to do things.

Are you suggesting that levelling with the strings on is wrong?

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

Are you suggesting that levelling with the strings on is wrong?

Yes. I just don't see how it's possible - the frets are under the strings.

[vejesse]

Hi Mr. Strange. Have you seen Stewart Macdonald's book "Fretwork - step by step"? On page 45 there's a picture of an 'under the string' fret leveler. That one could be a little flimsy and hard to precision grind but there you go. Now you don't have to use your imagination, you can look at a picture! And by the way, most of the fret job instruction in that book is done without jigging the neck. Check it out.

When it comes down to it, it's not about how much you spend on tools but what you do with them and the results you get.

Agreed?

[Benjamin Strange]

I agree to a point - a tool is only as good as the person using it. That said, there are certain jobs that just can't really be done without the proper tools.

Case in point:


This is a pic I found of somebody doing a under string fret level. No offense intended, but that is a pretty whack way of doing a level. Trying to do a level with a tool that doesn't span the entire neck isn't a true level at all - all you're doing is spot leveling. The shorter tool will follow the curvature of the neck, and will only (sort of) make a few frets at a time level with each other. If there's a dip or rise in the neck, then those frets will still dip and rise if you use a short tool. The key is that ALL the frets are level with ALL the other frets. That simply cannot be done with any high degree of precision without proper tooling.

Also, the under-string method will bend the strings, creating higher tension on the neck, which will put more relief in the neck. Then a short leveling tool will swoop along an even greater curve than before. That's not a real-world result. It also appears that they aren't using a flat surface - it looks like a radius block. You have to be super, super careful leveling frets with a radius block, because if it wanders out of perfect alignment even a little bit it will make the frets even more uneven than before.

EDIT: Also, upon looking at the pic above a bit more, I noticed that the guy has got the neck sitting on a block. This means every time he moves his hand along the neck, the neck is being bent and bowed. Even the slightest pressure will move a neck, once again compromising the fret "level".

I'm not here to bash other techniques - I'm sure you can get an ok job done without the proper tools or know-how. But do get any real degree of precision, it really helps to have a job done the RIGHT way. That is, until a better way comes along.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

How the heck do you do a fret level with the strings on? No offense, but that sounds really odd - how are you going about it?

Rick Turner and Bishop Cochran were the instigators of this method. Turner uses Aluminum L-stock, Cochran, aluminum U-stock, bottom trued, PSA sandpaper. Get the neck as straight as it's going to get--this is a real world operation--level underneath each string. Check work as you go, as the instrument
is playable.

Like a charm...*F* Plek!

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by JLS

Rick Turner and Bishop Cochran were the instigators of this method. Turner uses Aluminum L-stock, Cochran, aluminum U-stock, bottom trued, PSA sandpaper. Get the neck as straight as it's going to get--this is a real world operation--level underneath each string. Check work as you go, as the instrument
is playable.

Like a charm...*F* Plek!

Hmm. That looks interesting, but it seems to me to be quite a bit more work having to work around the strings. I have my reservations about how accurate it could be - I may just have to try it and see how it turns out.

And yes, *F* Plek indeed. If I had a nickel for every bad Plek job I've seen...

[vejesse]

Well, If you want to insist that your way is the only valid way to go about a job regardless of results that's a peculiar attitude. And you better have all your loose ends wrapped up.

For instance, how flat is your leveling tool? No offense to Stewart Macdonald (I'm glad there around) but when I checked one of their long levelers it barely made it within .005" flatness, concave one side, convex the other. I can get a similar piece of 1x2 steel tube within .0005" with my friend's grinder. Just because you lay out a bunch of bread on commercially made tools doesn't mean the tools or the operator are happening.

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by vejesse

Well, If you want to insist that your way is the only valid way to go about a job regardless of results that's a peculiar attitude. And you better have all your loose ends wrapped up.

For instance, how flat is your leveling tool? No offense to Stewart Macdonald (I'm glad there around) but when I checked one of their long levelers it barely made it within .005" flatness, concave one side, convex the other. I can get a similar piece of 1x2 steel tube within .0005" with my friend's grinder. Just because you lay out a bunch of bread on commercially made tools doesn't mean the tools or the operator are happening.

I'm not saying it's the only way to go, but it is a better way to go. Every result is quantifiable, and it's pretty easy to see which way is accurate and which way is not. Doing a level with a short leveling tool is flat out impossible to do with any degree of accuracy. I have done tons of levels without a neck jig myself, and once I started using one I realized how far off my previous work was. I'm all for doing things better, and sometimes having the proper tools is the only way.

As far as my leveling tools, we have an ex-machinist at my shop, and we end up making a lot of our own tools. We found that Stewmac's level wasn't exactly level on one side, too - so we don't use that side. We also have modified it by filling it with lead buckshot, which makes it very heavy and makes it provide even pressure all the way across the board.

There's a right way, a wrong way, and a better way. I've seen the results from just about every manner of doing fretwork under the sun, and so far nothing beats a neck jig, some decent tools, and a good eye. Until something else better comes along, I'm sticking to it.