First setup, buzz on A and D?

[KyleAwesome]

Hopefully someone can give me a few pointers.

I did my first setup on my fender jazz lastnight. I adjusted the truss rod by capoing the first fret and fretting the last fret and getting my .014 feeler gauge between the 7th and 8th frets. After a little while I got it perfect (or so I thought).

I adjusted intonation, open strings rang true aswell as being fretted on the 12th fret.

Now I like my action really low, I adjusted it as low as I could but I constantly got buzz on the 8th and 9th frets of the A and D strings. I had to adjust the saddles higher then my E and G strings to avoid the buzz. I have a badass II installed if that makes a difference.

It seems that whatever order I adjust things in, my action is still higher then I'd like. I followed the directions on these two sites

http://www.tunemybass.com/bass_setup/
http://www.fender.com/support/basses.php

still I dont feel like my action is where it should be, any pointers for a novice?

Thanks in advance!

[fretlessman71]

Your A and D saddles should ALWAYS be higher than the E and G. Look closely at your fingerboard and notice the curve from treble side to bass - your bridge should mimic this curve.

Also, basses should have a little bit of "relief" (or "bow") in them - not perfectly straight (unless you have a featherlight touch). Strings need room to vibrate, and if you don't give it to them, they'll bump into the frets as they ring.

Oftentimes if you get the neck just right, you can get the action really low, just where you want it. HTH.

[KyleAwesome]

Originally Posted by fretlessman71

Your A and D saddles should ALWAYS be higher than the E and G. Look closely at your fingerboard and notice the curve from treble side to bass - your bridge should mimic this curve.

That makes a lot of sense, I guess I never thought of that, it would have to follow the curvature...

Originally Posted by fretlessman71

Also, basses should have a little bit of "relief" (or "bow") in them - not perfectly straight (unless you have a featherlight touch). Strings need room to vibrate, and if you don't give it to them, they'll bump into the frets as they ring.

Oftentimes if you get the neck just right, you can get the action really low, just where you want it. HTH.

I set the relief to what fender says to on their site, should I adjust more in one way or the other to lower the action?

Thanks again!

[fretlessman71]

Every bass is different; the Fender specs are a good guideline, but if you're pickier it will take a little more TLC to get it where you want it.

Sometimes when the neck is "just right" you'll find that it still buzzes and you have to raise the saddles to compensate for having (mostly) flattened the neck. As a matter of fact, I'd say that as a general rule, if your bass feels good but buzzes, you're going to have to tighten the rod AND raise the action to get the same feel without the buzz. Does this make sense?

Think of the string like a see-saw, and the high frets of your bass as the fulcrum. As you flatten the neck, the strings on that side go DOWN, so you have to bring the saddles UP or they run into the frets.

[KyleAwesome]

Originally Posted by fretlessman71

Every bass is different; the Fender specs are a good guideline, but if you're pickier it will take a little more TLC to get it where you want it.

Sometimes when the neck is "just right" you'll find that it still buzzes and you have to raise the saddles to compensate for having (mostly) flattened the neck. As a matter of fact, I'd say that as a general rule, if your bass feels good but buzzes, you're going to have to tighten the rod AND raise the action to get the same feel without the buzz. Does this make sense?

Think of the string like a see-saw, and the high frets of your bass as the fulcrum. As you flatten the neck, the strings on that side go DOWN, so you have to bring the saddles UP or they run into the frets.

Makes total sense. All in all, what harm can come from having a slightly concave neck if I want low action?

[fretlessman71]

Only your ego knows for sure.

[KyleAwesome]

Should I be considering shimming the neck? I've never ventured into that before. I'm at work currently so I cant fool around with it at the moment, but there is still a good > 1/4th inch gap on the higher register...

[JLS]

The answer to all action problems!

Seriously, though--your 10th fret may have a high spot. Sounds like you have enough relief, so if you raise the A&D saddles to conform to the curve of the fingerboard, and it still has a fret-topical buzz, that's what I suspect.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by KyleAwesome

Should I be considering shimming the neck? I've never ventured into that before. I'm at work currently so I cant fool around with it at the moment, but there is still a good > 1/4th inch gap on the higher register...

Let me guess--right after the 15th fret?

[KyleAwesome]

Originally Posted by JLS

Let me guess--right after the 15th fret?

I couldnt tell ya off hand, but if so...?

[JLS]

Originally Posted by KyleAwesome

I couldnt tell ya off hand, but if so...?

That's what it's called--one of several names--when the neck kinks, where it meets the body/neck pocket. Trussrod adjustments won't fix this.

[KyleAwesome]

Well I got home and took alook at it, and it not obviously higher at any specific point, just a gentle taper towards the bridge. It just seems higher than it needs to be. Maybe I'll try and redo it tonight.

Any pointers? What do people generally do first: adjust string height then relief, or vice versa?

Thanks!

[Turnaround]

Start by adjusting the relief. Then proceed to string height by adjusting the string saddles and finish off with intonation. If you need a nut adjustment, do that as the first or second step.

A 1/4" gap at the last fret is a LOT. Try reducing the relief to .012" and check where you get fret buzz. If you get it in the area of the 1st to 5th fret, then you were probably better off with .014 relief. But if the buzz occurs only from the 12th fret up, then there may be other issues. It can get really complicated from there on, so report back your results after trying the above and we will attempt to guide you through the rest.

It would also be helpful to know the age and location of manufacture of the instrument.

[KyleAwesome]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

Start by adjusting the relief. Then proceed to string height by adjusting the string saddles and finish off with intonation. If you need a nut adjustment, do that as the first or second step.

A 1/4" gap at the last fret is a LOT. Try reducing the relief to .012" and check where you get fret buzz. If you get it in the area of the 1st to 5th fret, then you were probably better off with .014 relief. But if the buzz occurs only from the 12th fret up, then there may be other issues. It can get really complicated from there on, so report back your results after trying the above and we will attempt to guide you through the rest.

It would also be helpful to know the age and location of manufacture of the instrument.

Well I just re-adjusted everything and now it seems better. I ended up with alittle more then an 1/8th inch (maybe 1/6) in the higher register. However I have about .019-.020 in relief now.

Some specs on the bass. A MIM fender deluxe jazz unknown vintage (I bought it used) Its their "Vintage White Rosewood" so it can be more then a few years old. MZ6182937. It has a badass bridge installed aswell.

How does that setup sound? Feels fine, seems to play well, no buzz unless I dig in, and then still only towards the 9th fret.

EDIT: even with the lower relief I only ever got buzz on 9-10. never anything up from there.

[Solarmist]

You did it in the right order - you should have the clearance of about a credit cards thickness for relief.
Intonation is set by tuning the bass with the tuner -then check the 12th fret note with the 12th fret harmonic. If the fretted note is sharp of the harmonic - move the saddle back. If the fretted note is flat of the harmonic - move the saddle forward.

Originally Posted by fretlessman71

Your A and D saddles should ALWAYS be higher than the E and G. Look closely at your fingerboard and notice the curve from treble side to bass - your bridge should mimic this curve.

Also, basses should have a little bit of "relief" (or "bow") in them - not perfectly straight (unless you have a featherlight touch). Strings need room to vibrate, and if you don't give it to them, they'll bump into the frets as they ring.

Oftentimes if you get the neck just right, you can get the action really low, just where you want it. HTH.

+1 - Exactly

[KyleAwesome]

Originally Posted by Solarmist

You did it in the right order - you should have the clearance of about a credit cards thickness for relief.
Intonation is set by tuning the bass with the tuner -then check the 12th fret note with the 12th fret harmonic. If the fretted note is sharp of the harmonic - move the saddle back. If the fretted note is flat of the harmonic - move the saddle forward.



+1 - Exactly

Well I have about 1 cc up till the 5th fret, two cc's till about the 12th and 3 on down.

How would you recommend I adjust this beast?

So would this be caused by an issue with the nut? Causing too much rake on the strings or a neck thats out of true? Or...?

[fretlessman71]

Do you mean, "Why does it need to be intonated / Why can't the strings all be 34" from nut to bridge and leave it at that?"

[Joshua]

Slow and easy wins this race; go one step at a time.

Start with relief. I simply hold down the string at the first fret and the fret where the neck meets the body, and make sure there is @ a credit card's space between the bottom of the string and the top of the fret at about the midway point. It's a personal call as to exactly how much relief you should have, but let's just get it set at "good" for now.

*Special note on relief* - when seasons are changing there might be more movement of the neck than usual. What measures great today might need a tweak tomorrow.

Next, and this will most probably take a few shots, simply set the bridge saddles as low as possible so as not to get string buzz (or perhaps more specifically not to get excessive string buzz). The Fender setup guide (I believe) has some good guidelines, but they are only that.

Once the above is done (and assumed done correctly of course), you will have a good basic idea of what the bass will be capable of without more demanding work. We'll worry about those variables once the basics are set.

And always remember that setup is the sum of ALL variables, including your playing style.

[fretlessman71]

Here's a handy guide to that "midway" point:

If you have a long scale 20 fret bass, the midway point (between the first and last fret) is the 8th fret.

If you have a long scale 24 fret bass, the midway point is the 9th fret.

If you have a short scale bass, don't bother as your bass will never set up properly in the first place.

[KyleAwesome]

Originally Posted by fretlessman71

Do you mean, "Why does it need to be intonated / Why can't the strings all be 34" from nut to bridge and leave it at that?"

No no, I understand the reasoning behind it. String gauge, resonate frequency, wave size.

Originally Posted by Joshua

Slow and easy wins this race; go one step at a time.

Start with relief. I simply hold down the string at the first fret and the fret where the neck meets the body, and make sure there is @ a credit card's space between the bottom of the string and the top of the fret at about the midway point. It's a personal call as to exactly how much relief you should have, but let's just get it set at "good" for now.

Yeah, I had originally followed a couple guides I posted earlier. I had shot for .014 for the relief, just now I backed off a little to .016

Originally Posted by Joshua

Next, and this will most probably take a few shots, simply set the bridge saddles as low as possible so as not to get string buzz (or perhaps more specifically not to get excessive string buzz). The Fender setup guide (I believe) has some good guidelines, but they are only that.

Thats where I start to run into issues, I cant get an acceptable amount of buzz unless I adjust the saddles fairly high.

Originally Posted by fretlessman71

Here's a handy guide to that "midway" point:

If you have a long scale 20 fret bass, the midway point (between the first and last fret) is the 8th fret.

Thats where I have always gotten the most buzz? Thats part of what isnt making musch sense to me. When I measure the relief I measure it at the 8th fret. It has a gap of approx .016 right now, more gap than any other area of the fret board, but then fretted, the 8th and 9th frets are the only ones that buzz.

Here is a quick cell phone shot of where the action likes to be so I dont get an unmanageable amount of buzz. Both A and D are considerably higher than E and G, much higher than what I believe would need to be accounted for, for the curvature of the neck (from highest to lowest strings).

What do you guys think?