Flattening an old dried out fingerboard?

[deliciouspesto]

How would one go about doing this properly?

When the neck itself is nice and straight, but the fingerboard has aged and shrunk to produce an uneven surface, what sorts of processes would be involved in the correction?

I'm not asking the generic steps, but more of which sort of options are likely. The most extreme correction with an assured successful outcome would seem to be removal of the fingerboard and replacement, while the least invasive and likely least effective patch-up approach might be something like a fret job but using tall frets so as to create an effectively level fretting surface.

What do you guys think are the realistic options at all ends of the spectrum?

thanks

[TGLbass]

Pics would help.

[Pilgrim]

My guess is that the most realistic option is probably to replace the fretboard, unless there's enough material on the old one to pull the frets and completely re-surface it.

[bwest9]

Set the charges for 15 minutes, and make sure you get everyone clear of the house in time.

[walterw]

the neck is straight, but the fingerboard is not? and the board hasn't separated from the neck? i have no idea how that's even possible.

in any case, the fix for things like a slight kink, twist, or an otherwise uneven board is to pull the frets, plane the board straight, then re-fret.

[GeoffByrne]

Give it a good 'feed' with lemon oil or something else suitable (walnut oil, almond oil, virgin olive oil) i.e. give it a good coverage then wait till it all sinks in. When it stops sinking in, wipe down & stop.

Leave for a few days for the density to homologate then re-assess where you are with it.

You *may* find the wood re-swells to a more even situation - or not.

[202dy]

How has the fingerboard shrunk? Is it in width, so that the sides of the neck are exposed? Is it in length, which would be very unusual? Are there a hump or two somewhere in the fingerboard? Is it completely attached?

As Walter pointed out, humps in the board are corrected by planing and re-fretting the fingerboard. If the fingerboard has shrunk in width, the repair is dependent on the amount of the shrinkage. If the glue is no longer holding the fingerboard in one or more places, that is a different kind of repair.

The more information you provide, the more specific answers you will receive.

[lethargytartare]

Originally Posted by walterw

the neck is straight, but the fingerboard is not? and the board hasn't separated from the neck? i have no idea how that's even possible.

in any case, the fix for things like a slight kink, twist, or an otherwise uneven board is to pull the frets, plane the board straight, then re-fret.

+1

Originally Posted by GeoffByrne

Give it a good 'feed' with lemon oil ...

-1

(1) I don't see that working, and (2) oiling like that would make a plane/refret a ton more work (alas, speaking from first-hand experience there...)

[deliciouspesto]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts- I have not yet removed the frets, so I don't have an exact assessment of the situation. Before people put in too much effort in trying to analyze it, I should probably get the measurements down and then post more info. This was mostly an attempt to figure out what sort of options might need to be on the table, so again thanks for the concerns and suggestions.

[Pilgrim]

This isn't a job for users - it's a job for a luthier. Do not pull the frets yourself - take it to a luthier from the start.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by deliciouspesto

Thanks everyone for the thoughts- I have not yet removed the frets, so I don't have an exact assessment of the situation. Before people put in too much effort in trying to analyze it, I should probably get the measurements down and then post more info. This was mostly an attempt to figure out what sort of options might need to be on the table, so again thanks for the concerns and suggestions.

Fret removal is done to prepare a fingerboard for a re-fret. The evaluation is made with the frets in place.

Fret barbs and tangs have an effect on the overall strength and integrity of the fingerboard. Removing the frets leaves a bunch empty of kerfs. That greatly effects the stiffness of the neck.

The best tool for evaluating a fingerboard is a notched straight edge. It is a precision ground tool that is notched to fit over the frets. It allows you to read the fingerboard instead of the tops of the frets. You can also mark the fingerboard for planing with the frets in and know where to remove the wood.

Most players do not have a notched straight edge. In lieu, use your strings as a straight edge (fret at first and last fret) to get an idea of where the problems are.

[deliciouspesto]

Excellent idea 202dy, though this is a short scale and a pre-made products in that scale seem harder to find. Using a standard straight edge in this case wouldn't work as the frets have begun to spring back on one side and are pretty loose. This needs a refret for sure- the purpose of the thread was to evaluate options if I find that there is in indeed more unevenness than is tolerable.

Would a decent way to tackle this be to use some radius gauges on the wood to determine the curvature, the state of that curvature, and then from there make further assessments?

Pilgrim I appreciate the warning, I have no intention of attempting the surgery if it does in fact need any. Planing appears to require extensive practice and skill at the particular task, so if it would need such a procedure a professional would absolutely be necessary.

Thanks!

[202dy]

Originally Posted by deliciouspesto

Excellent idea 202dy, though this is a short scale and a pre-made products in that scale seem harder to find. Using a standard straight edge in this case wouldn't work as the frets have begun to spring back on one side and are pretty loose. This needs a refret for sure- the purpose of the thread was to evaluate options if I find that there is in indeed more unevenness than is tolerable.

Would a decent way to tackle this be to use some radius gauges on the wood to determine the curvature, the state of that curvature, and then from there make further assessments?

Pilgrim I appreciate the warning, I have no intention of attempting the surgery if it does in fact need any. Planing appears to require extensive practice and skill at the particular task, so if it would need such a procedure a professional would absolutely be necessary.

Thanks!

Popped fret ends can be glued down. They are not necessarily a bench mark for re-fretting. If there are multiple popped frets, a fret dressing or a spot dressing may be called for. Of course, if the frets have severe ruts, then a re-fret is the answer.

It would be highly unusual for there to be something wrong in the radius of a fingerboard. For that to be true either the glue has failed or it wasn't right from the factory. If the glue has let go you should see some sign of it on the edge(s) of the joint between the neck and fingerboard. Not being right from the factory falls right back under highly unusual. Most often, the problem will be in the length of the board, e.g. a hump or a dip. So checking radius probably will not reveal any useful information. But if you've got the time and the tool, it certainly won't hurt anything.

Notched straight edges in alternate scale lengths are indeed difficult to come by. However, you can make one for just a few bucks. Obtain an inexpensive framing square at the large-home-center-out-on-the-four-lane. Line it up flush on the 24" side with the nut. Mark each fret and lay out a 1/4-3/8" mark for each one. Place square in a vise and file each mark 3/16" deep. Voila. Custom notched straight edge. How accurate is it? It's good enough to get you through this job. If you have a table saw that you know is flat or a large piece of plate glass (30" or so) you can fasten some 220 grit silicon carbide sandpaper and grind it relatively flat. Use a wood block as a fence and simply run the edge back and forth. It's a good idea to blue the edge with a Sharpie so you can see the progress.

As far as skill level goes, planing and re-fretting is near the top of the list. It combines both metal working and woodworking skills. It is a job for the seriously handy only. If one considers changing a flat to be working on a car, or have to rummage through kitchen drawers to find your tools, or think a sixteenth of an inch is pretty darn small, taking the guitar to a professional is highly recommended.

[TGLbass]

Proper fretboard maint. I always say. Oil that hamster about once a year. Keep it in the case (standing up). Don't keep it in an attic. Don't keep it in the garage. Don't keep it underneath a snow plow.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by 202dy

If one considers changing a flat to be working on a car, or have to rummage through kitchen drawers to find your tools, or think a sixteenth of an inch is pretty darn small, taking the guitar to a professional is highly recommended.

sig-worthy!