Fret Buzz, problem with the nut?

[hey]

So, I'm starting to get annoyed by the fret buzz on my 6 string. I only buzzes on the 1st fret and when a string is played open. Is it possible that the nut was cut too deep? Or is there a different problem?

[202dy]

Good guess. There are two reasons for buzzing at the first fret. The first is improper stringing. The second is a low nut. Start with the easiest. There must be enough down angle at the nut. Check the string and make sure it is wound to the bottom of the post. If not, restring and the problem should go away. If that doesn't fix it then it is likely that the string groove in the nut is cut too low. There are several different ways to fix it depending on the value of the guitar and how much you wish to spend. The nut can be replaced with various materials at various prices or it can be filled and slotted again.

Check the down angle first.

[Eric Moesle]

Nut problems only effect the playing of open strings. There is no physical way a poorly cut nut could affect a note fretted at the first fret or any other fret position, since it is out of the equation altogether. The string vibration stops at the fret when you are playing fretted notes.

[ConspiracyBass]

Originally Posted by Eric Moesle

Nut problems only effect the playing of open strings. There is no physical way a poorly cut nut could affect a note fretted at the first fret or any other fret position, since it is out of the equation altogether. The string vibration stops at the fret when you are playing fretted notes.

He said the buzz happens when he plays the string open.

I imagine that either the nut is cut too low or that fret is high.

[EADG mx]

If it's only open I'd say it's the nut, high fret, improper stringing (all as suggested) or just a bad string

I've had bad strings that have buzzed on random frets.. one G i had did only on the 9th, one E did only on the 1st (same problem you're having). I switched the strings and the problem went away. Just some defective strings. YMMV

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Eric Moesle

Nut problems only effect the playing of open strings. There is no physical way a poorly cut nut could affect a note fretted at the first fret or any other fret position, since it is out of the equation altogether. The string vibration stops at the fret when you are playing fretted notes.

I disagree - a nut slot that's too low can cause a buzz on a fretted note, depending on neck relief, and what fret you're at...



- georgestrings

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

I disagree - a nut slot that's too low can cause a buzz on a fretted note, depending on neck relief, and what fret you're at...



- georgestrings

I started this very argument once and was proved wrong.
Eric Moesle is right imo

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by ConspiracyBass

He said the buzz happens when he plays the string open.

I imagine that either the nut is cut too low or that fret is high.

An open note buzz *can* be caused by a nut slot that's too wide, besides one that's too deep...



- georgestrings

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

I started this very argument once and was proved wrong.
Eric Moesle is right imo

How were you proven wrong??? After all, a string STILL vibrates between your fretting hand and the nut, and most certainly CAN buzz on a fret in between the two, depending on the slot depth, the fretting position, and the neck relief... One way to tell for sure why it's buzzing while fretting a note would be to use a piece of paper or 2 to "raise" the string in the slot... I've seen basses that would buzz when fretting at the 7th or 8th fret, and the buzz was most certainly coming from between the fretted note and the nut - and it could be altered by changing the neck relief, or "shimming" the string height in the nut slot...

Now, you *might* not hear such a buzz through an amp, you you sure can hear it while playing unplugged...



- georgestrings

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

An open note buzz *can* be caused by a nut slot that's too wide, besides one that's too deep...



- georgestrings

Does this mean that if I have my topnut filed so a 135 will fit in the low B slot that I won't be able to go back to a 128 if I want to? I don't mean to hijack this thread, this just happens to be the first thread I've seen on this subject.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Does this mean that if I have my topnut filed so a 135 will fit in the low B slot that I won't be able to go back to a 128 if I want to? I don't mean to hijack this thread, this just happens to be the first thread I've seen on this subject.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no - although there's a couple of quick/cheap fixes for the situation you describe...



- georgestrings

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

How were you proven wrong??? After all, a string STILL vibrates between your fretting hand and the nut, and most certainly CAN buzz on a fret in between the two, depending on the slot depth, the fretting position, and the neck relief... One way to tell for sure why it's buzzing while fretting a note would be to use a piece of paper or 2 to "raise" the string in the slot... I've seen basses that would buzz when fretting at the 7th or 8th fret, and the buzz was most certainly coming from between the fretted note and the nut - and it could be altered by changing the neck relief, or "shimming" the string height in the nut slot...

Now, you *might* not hear such a buzz through an amp, you you sure can hear it while playing unplugged...



- georgestrings

I was proven wrong as several members pointed out that nut height cannot cause fretbuzz due to the fact that once you fret a note, the nut is no longer part of the equation. Therefore a poorly cut nut can only cause buzz/choking on open strings

as for causing a buzz between the fretted note and nut (the dead side of the string), you wouldn't hear this through an amp as the pickups don't pick up the dead end of the string.

as for hearing it unplugged - why would you want to play unplugged anyway?

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

I was proven wrong as several members pointed out that nut height cannot cause fretbuzz due to the fact that once you fret a note, the nut is no longer part of the equation. Therefore a poorly cut nut can only cause buzz/choking on open strings

as for causing a buzz between the fretted note and nut (the dead side of the string), you wouldn't hear this through an amp as the pickups don't pick up the dead end of the string.

as for hearing it unplugged - why would you want to play unplugged anyway?

Read what I posted again, and think about it - or better yet, fret a note around the 7th or 8th fret, and tell me that it couldn't happen the way I described???

*IF* the buzzing is bad enough - like if you're really digging in - you *might* hear it through an amp... after all, you can tap the body of your bass and hear it through the amp = so it's not such a stretch that a loud buzz between your fretting hand and the nut *could* get picked upo a little...

As for why you'd play unplugged - it can reveal set-up issues, and besides - are you really going to tell me that no one ever plays their bass unplugged???



- georgestrings

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Read what I posted again, and think about it - or better yet, fret a note around the 7th or 8th fret, and tell me that it couldn't happen the way I described???

*IF* the buzzing is bad enough - like if you're really digging in - you *might* hear it through an amp... after all, you can tap the body of your bass and hear it through the amp = so it's not such a stretch that a loud buzz between your fretting hand and the nut *could* get picked upo a little...

As for why you'd play unplugged - it can reveal set-up issues, and besides - are you really going to tell me that no one ever plays their bass unplugged???



- georgestrings

I don't dig in

and I don't play unplugged.. only if I'm, as you said, trying to solve a setup issue such as looking for the source of a rattle or buzz.

but that's only if it's so bad I can hear it while plugged in. If I can't hear it plugged in, it doesn't bother me

[PilbaraBass]

sounds like a high 2nd fret, to me...open string AND 1st fret is buzzing...

could be some issues with relief, too...probably not, but easy enough to check, so do that first...

how can you tell for sure if you have a high fret...have you heard of a fret rocker? ...check out stewmac.com...dan erlewine demonstrates one on a video explaining the product...

you can easily make your own...just get yourself a decent metal straight edge and cut it into 4 pieces: 4", 3", 2" and 1-5/16"...you'll have essentially the same thing...

[202dy]

What GS is referring to is known as "back buzz". It is very real and can be frustrating to deduce. Furthermore, when trying to find a buzz on the neck it can confuse the situation.

Back buzz is mostly a problem with acoustic instruments. It is acoustically audible and in many cases and is amplified by both magnetic and peizo pickups. It is less of a problem on solid body instruments. When it occurs, it is usually an annoyance only when playing unamplified. But it is not unheard of to have the back buzz amplified by the pickups of an electric guitar. It is rare but it happens.

BTW, it can also be caused by a string that is out of spec. Sometimes these will slip through QC unnoticed. Of course the remedy is to change the string. Unfortunately, it might take an hour to find out that the problem is the string.

[hey]

Originally Posted by 202dy

Good guess. There are two reasons for buzzing at the first fret. The first is improper stringing. The second is a low nut. Start with the easiest. There must be enough down angle at the nut. Check the string and make sure it is wound to the bottom of the post. If not, restring and the problem should go away. If that doesn't fix it then it is likely that the string groove in the nut is cut too low. There are several different ways to fix it depending on the value of the guitar and how much you wish to spend. The nut can be replaced with various materials at various prices or it can be filled and slotted again.

Check the down angle first.

What is down angle?

Anyway, i'll take all the suggestions into mind here. As a last resort, I'll take it to a local luthier or something.

Everyone else who is not helping me: get out of my thread NOW.

[Slax]

I'd assume a "down angle" would be that the string gets overly low towards the nut (thus being cut too deep). I have this problem on my MIA P bass... I fixed by switching from 45-100's to 50-105's. The larger string didn't slip as deep into the nut, thus removing the buzz. (Or at least remove to the point where it was workable and not so noticable.).

If that doesn't work for you, I'd say go to a shop and see if they can do something for ya.

[PilbaraBass]

Originally Posted by 202dy

What GS is referring to is known as "back buzz". It is very real and can be frustrating to deduce. Furthermore, when trying to find a buzz on the neck it can confuse the situation.

Back buzz is mostly a problem with acoustic instruments. It is acoustically audible and in many cases and is amplified by both magnetic and peizo pickups. It is less of a problem on solid body instruments. When it occurs, it is usually an annoyance only when playing unamplified. But it is not unheard of to have the back buzz amplified by the pickups of an electric guitar. It is rare but it happens.

BTW, it can also be caused by a string that is out of spec. Sometimes these will slip through QC unnoticed. Of course the remedy is to change the string. Unfortunately, it might take an hour to find out that the problem is the string.

back buzz, while only a "problem" on acoustic instruments, is annoying on any instrument, like you said.

I've recently corrected some back buzz issues on my main player by fixing the nut slots (I made a thread about it).

I really do feel though that the OP should look at a high fret. Most-likely the 2nd fret, but can be the 3rd. The relief needs to be first set properly and then the investigation can begin.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by hey

What is down angle?

Anyway, i'll take all the suggestions into mind here. As a last resort, I'll take it to a local luthier or something.

Everyone else who is not helping me: get out of my thread NOW.

Down angle is typically a description of the angle between the lowest point of where the string wraps around the tuning peg and the nut - and not having enough down angle(typically not enough wraps around the post) *can* cause some buzzing issues... Down angle is why Fender style basses have a string tree on the headstock...



- georgestrings