Fretless String Tension

Cthulhu · #1 02-25-2009, 06:04 AM

Last week I became the proud owner of a Squire VM Fretless Jazz. I added a Gotoh 203 bridge that I had lying around, meticulously checked relief and CAREFULLY worked on the nut to get the slots nice and low, and strung it with some D'Addario Nickel Round Wounds (.045 .065 .085 .105). So far, so good.

Here is the problem; the E and to a lesser extent the other strings rattle (not mwah) when I play. I've carefully set the relief to get it as straight as possible without a back bow, and I've adjuster the saddles to test them both in a low and high position, but to no avail. The strings (the E and A in particular) seem floppy. I have a set of LaBella flats that I'd like to re-string with, but I'd hate to have the same thing happen.

Does the tension of a string help to keep a fretless from rattling/clanking? It seems logical that it would, but I'd hate to make that assumption without some of you weighing in.

Mr. Ray · #2 02-25-2009, 08:10 AM

Hi where is it rattling? If it's at the top of the neck (1st to 5th fret) you might need to give the neck a little bit of relief (loosen) or you may have cut the nut too low. If it's at the top you may need to raise the saddles. Some string sets are looser. The Labella flats have a tighter tension so installing them just may solve your problem. Adjusting action of a fretless is critical to get the "mwah" sound. Lower action action also makes it easier to play in tune. I hope this helps.

Cthulhu · #3 02-25-2009, 09:51 AM

I've tried to be pretty methodical about the whole thing. I checked the archives here, looked at Gary Willis' site, etc. etc. I have some relief in the neck which helps, but its seems to be a bit more than I would have thought (about .012" at the 8th). The E string is still pretty floppy. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the LaBellas will help. I've seen references on Frank Ford's (luthier) site that lists low gauge strings as a possible cause of buzzing.

Thanks again - I'll take all the advice I can get!

paganjack · #4 02-25-2009, 10:00 AM

i would imagine the higher tension strings would help quite a bit. I've got chromes on my fretless and I don't get any noise unless i really dig in. flats are generally tighter, and that seems to help.

XylemBassGuitar · #5 02-25-2009, 10:55 AM

Do the strings rattle when played open, or only when fretted? If they rattle when played open, the nut slots may be too low like Mr. Ray says.

Definitely get some higher tension flatwound strings, they should help.

I also wouldn't worry about how much relief you have at the 8th fret. .012" is about right for a fretted bass according to Fender. In fact, a lot of fretless basses require more relief than fretted basses, especially when they have low action.

Here is why: A fretted bass' string only needs to clear the next fret, which is usually a little farther away from the one you're fretting, so the string has some distance to rise before it has to clear the fret. A fretless bass doesn't have that distance between frets, it has to clear the fretboard immediately in front of where the string is fretted and so it may need a little more relief to avoid rattling against the fretboard (let me know if that doesn't make sense).

So, if the higher-tension strings don't improve the condition, you might consider adding even a little more relief to the neck.

Oh, by the way, in my experience it is better to remove the entire nut and lower it by sanding away the bottom than it is to cut the individual slots lower. You want about 1/2 of the strings' diameters to be sticking up above the top of the nut. If the slots are cut deeper you may run into some tuning issues (string binding usually). Of couse, if your nut slots were shallower than this to begin with, cutting them a little deeper shouldn't hurt. By telling you this I'm not trying to say "hey! you did it the wrong way!", I just wanted to mention a different way of lowering the nut in case you were interested.

Good luck dialing in your new bass!

Cthulhu · #6 02-25-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XylemBassGuitar

Do the strings rattle when played open, or only when fretted? If they rattle when played open, the nut slots may be too low like Mr. Ray says.

Definitely get some higher tension flatwound strings, they should help.

I also wouldn't worry about how much relief you have at the 8th fret. .012" is about right for a fretted bass according to Fender. In fact, a lot of fretless basses require more relief than fretted basses, especially when they have low action.

Here is why: A fretted bass' string only needs to clear the next fret, which is usually a little farther away from the one you're fretting, so the string has some distance to rise before it has to clear the fret. A fretless bass doesn't have that distance between frets, it has to clear the fretboard immediately in front of where the string is fretted and so it may need a little more relief to avoid rattling against the fretboard (let me know if that doesn't make sense).

So, if the higher-tension strings don't improve the condition, you might consider adding even a little more relief to the neck.

Oh, by the way, in my experience it is better to remove the entire nut and lower it by sanding away the bottom than it is to cut the individual slots lower. You want about 1/2 of the strings' diameters to be sticking up above the top of the nut. If the slots are cut deeper you may run into some tuning issues (string binding usually). Of couse, if your nut slots were shallower than this to begin with, cutting them a little deeper shouldn't hurt. By telling you this I'm not trying to say "hey! you did it the wrong way!", I just wanted to mention a different way of lowering the nut in case you were interested.

Good luck dialing in your new bass!

Intersting... In most of my searches here (and elsewhere), people have talked about getting the fretboard almost arrow-straight. Gary Willis, on the other hand, seems to be of the same mind as you are (I believe that Gary states on his sight that there needs to be relief as well). My "experimenting" with the relief and strings seem to confirm your theory about the need for more relief. The strings are rattling on the board about 1 fret in distance from the fretted note. Fortunately, the open strings are O.K., since I was pretty conservative with my filing.

It is great to get this feedback from all of you. I'm still hoping that the strings bring some much needed tension.