fretting out of tune

[KimblesNimble]

Ive checked the intonation - good - but when i fret a note I am sharp and I get sharper as I move up in pitch up the neck. Is it the nut? Can I fix this or should I take it in? Are my frets spaced incorrectly? Its a cheap 6 string Douglas WEB-846 from Rondo.

[dmusic148]

How did you check intonation? 12th fret?

[JustDavid]

+1

You are describing bad intonation quite accurately.

Tune the open string then fret at the 12th. Sharp, I'd guess.

[AlembicPlayer]

the nut is out of the equation when fretting

+1 ...intonation

[Widdershins]

Originally Posted by KimblesNimble

Ive checked the intonation - good

Maybe not so good

It's most likely an error in setting your intonation and/or the construction quality of the instrument.

Try setting the intonation by:
Tuning to pitch on the open strings.
Check tuning at the 12th fret by fretting it (don't use harmonics) and make the necessary adjustments.
Check tuning at, say the 5th fret. If it's off by a bit, then try and split the difference between the 12th and 5th when you adjust the intonation... you'll never get it 100% perfect.

If the difference between the two is a lot, then the string length is off relative to the fret spacing. This could be due to the bridge placed improperly or the fret slots cut wrong (highly unlikely, but who knows).

[Ric5]

move the bridge saddles away from the neck.

[lug]

Ring the string over the 12th fret (put your finger on the string at the 12th fret but don't "fret" it and pluck). Now fret the string at the twelth fret. It should be sharp. Now keep doing this while moving the bridge saddle back until the fetted note and the "rung" note are the same pitch. Repeat with othe strings. If you use a tuner to do this, you will have to retune the string after every saddle move.

[KimblesNimble]

"Tuning to pitch on the open strings.
Check tuning at the 12th fret by fretting it (don't use harmonics) and make the necessary adjustments.
Check tuning at, say the 5th fret. If it's off by a bit, then try and split the difference between the 12th and 5th when you adjust the intonation."


I'll try that once I get home. Thanks everyone!

[JustDavid]

Originally Posted by lug

. . .If you use a tuner to do this

Let's hope so.

Originally Posted by lug

you will have to retune the string after every saddle move.

No, just note the open or harmonic's deviation & compare the 12th fretted to that. No need to retune.



It's also good to ensure that the saddle is actually moving, more when the saddle is being moved towards the neck.

[lug]

Originally Posted by JustDavid

Let's hope so.



No, just note the open or harmonic's deviation & compare the 12th fretted to that. No need to retune.

That's for if you are using a tuner that only indicates "in tune". I mentioned retuning because some tuners indicate with stobes, etc, but all tuners will work when retuning. Moving the saddle back will change both the fretted and rung notes. If you are using a swing meter style or offset indicator, that fine. If you are trying to guage blinking lights or arrows, not so much.

[JustDavid]

Originally Posted by lug

That's for if you are using a tuner that only indicates "in tune". I mentioned retuning because some tuners indicate with stobes, etc, but all tuners will work when retuning.

Good point. I didn't even realize my presumption. Apologies.

[staindbass]

Originally Posted by AlembicPlayer

the nut is out of the equation when fretting

+1 ...intonation

****not really, the height of the string in the nut plays a part, the higher the nut, the more the string must be stretched to press it against the fret, thus more fiddling to get it to intonate.. johnny a. staind

[KimblesNimble]

i was using open string / harmonic at 12th to test intonation. When I pressed the fret at the 12th I got complatetly different results. Problem fixed thanks everyone!

[JTE]

The only thing you get when you compare the open string to the 12th fret harmonic is that you find out if your srtings are crapped out. The harmonic is a natural node of the open string, and it divides the string exactly in half. So, the harmonic and the open string WILL be in tune- unless your strings are physically worn, gunked up (with sweat, beer, blood, dead skin cells, etc.) or defective. So comparing the harmonic to the open string is pointless.

Proper intonation requires comparing the open string to fretted notes. And the 12th fret (and 5th fret) harmonic are equal divison of the string that match the tempered scale so you can use those instead of the open string with no problems. I prefer the harmonic because it's got more cycles per second (a higher sampling rate as it were) for the tuner to latch on to compared to the open string.

jte

[JustDavid]

Originally Posted by JTE

The only thing you get when you compare the open string to the 12th fret harmonic is that you find out if your srtings are crapped out. . . . So comparing the harmonic to the open string is pointless.

Clarifying, comparing open to harmonic IS pointless for intonation but is NOT pointless. Gives a measure of string-quality check.

Originally Posted by JTE

I prefer the harmonic because it's got more cycles per second (a higher sampling rate as it were) for the tuner to latch on to compared to the open string.

I also like the 12th harmonic as you get to hear the 2 notes; helps build my hearing ability for tuning & fine tuning.