General bass problems, Trouble with the E string

[Ezmar]

First off, Hello, everybody, I'm new here on talkbass forums, and hope that you can help me with some problems I've been having.

I have an Indonesia made Fender Squier J bass. My MAIN problem that I can't identify the cause of is mainly the low E string, but some of the other ones too, but Even When I perfectly tune it with a tuner, It sounds sharp. Not like, really sharp, but it's like there's something weird with the overtones. It might be a problem with the string intonation, since it's magnified when I use the frets, but I was wondering if it could possibly be a problem with my ear. Now, I'm well known among my musical peers for having a remarkable ear, and am just shy of having perfect pitch (I could hum a song in the right key almost all of the time, though I wouldn't be able to Identify the note by name). But could there be something wrong with my low register hearing? It seems like the tuning is just a little bit off way down low, mostly on the E string. It sounds like it's in tune, but at the same time, it sounds sharp. It's like those illusions where the cube switches from being out and in continuously, depending on which way you look at it. It's most noticeable when I play Marathon, by Rush. I get to the chorus, and I know what key the song is in by heart, I can sing it perfectly in tune, so I have the bass tuned, and just play it. anyway, at the chorus, the bass is doing sustained low notes, and I'm trying to sing in pitch with what my brain tells me the song is, but the bass is sounding sharp compared to me, so I sound out of tune. The thing is, If I tune down the bass, it sounds flat. It's really hard to explain, but is this an ear problem, a string problem, a string intonation problem, an overtone problem, what? It isn't as bad on other basses, it's the worst on my Squier.

That's my main question. My side question is this: If I retool the Squier enough, can I make it really good instead of crappy? I mean changing the hardware, like the tuning pegs, nut, bridge, pickups, and maybe the electronics, without getting a new bass entirely. Or is the wood or anything non-replacable substandard in any way? Basically, would I be better off simply getting an actual Fender Jazz, or trying to gussy up the old one? Can I fix all of the shortcomings on the Squier by changing all of the aforementioned things?

Thanks in advance!

[Bassblisters]

Some thoughts:

First, see if your intonation is set properly at the octaves. Play on the strings through a tuner--that will be your objective reference as to whether it's something about the bass, or some frequencies you may be hearing more than others with your own set of ears.

Set the intonation and, then, play some strings open and hold a note. If the strings don't stay even remotely in tune on long notes, try replacing them with new strings and see if the new strings when new stay better in tune.

I would be surprised if the frets are mispositioned--I would think that stuff is computerized for production basses.

Hope this helps.

[Ezmar]

Yeah, That's the easiest fix, and something I should do anyway, but I've been shying away from that since the truss rod needs to get adjusted for sure, and I don't want to have to adjust the strings twice. I'll have someone do that when I get some rotosounds like I've been meaning to.

And for the second part, would fixing that stuff make the bass more comfortable, particularly in the left hand, with the neck bowed out like it is (slightly), it's a little funky to play. I also NEED to get a new bridge, since with the one I have, the saddle height adjustment is retarded. I don't have enough room to put the strings where I like them, specifically the E string, It's WAY WAY too low. The E and G don't go up nearly as high as the D or A, but the G is better because the string's smaller. The E is really close to the fretboard, particularly for slap.

I'd also like the strings a little tighter, but there's really nothing I can do about that, what with the scale of the bass and all.

[JLS]

Get this bass setup, which will include setting the intonation.

Second: I wouldn't put any money in an Indonesian Squire instrument, other than setup & strings.

[Ezmar]

What is "This bass setup"? Did you mean get it "set up"?

And what do you mean by the second comment? I got it for Christmas one year. Are you saying that the quality of the wood is also crap? So I should save up and buy a better bass at some point? That's acceptable, but what would a good long-term solution be, since that will NOT happen anytime soon. I have a very limited (read: nonexistent) income, and other matters are more pressing, such as working on my guitar rig. I want to be able to at least comfortably use the bass until I can get a better one. Also, I'm seeing rush this august, so I'm going to see if I can get my Pickguard signed by Geddy. But yeah, any work on the bass is probably not going to happen for a long time, since I can't pay for ANYTHING. I'm currently saving up for a Super-Vee bridge for my guitar, and I've been $50 away for a couple of months now. Bleurgh.

[calebbarton]

Yeah I would get a setup. Or you could learn to do it yourself and save yourself a buttload of money in the long run.

First, get a set of feeler gauges - the small ones that measure from like .001" on up. fret at 12th fret and 1st fret and measure your relief at the 8th fret. I have setup squires for .008" of neck relief with no problems. you can try less or more depending on how you play. to adjust the truss rod, look down the fretboard towards the bridge. If the action is too high, loosen the strings and turn the rod to the right. If its too low, loosen the strings and turn to the left. If you are a beginner at messing with the truss rod, dont turn more than an 1/8th of a turn at a time. IF ITS TOO TIGHT, DONT TURN IT TOO HARD!!! Also, please loosen the strings. after you do that all you need to do is adjust the bridge saddle height and you should be good to go.

[doktorfeelgood]

Originally Posted by JLS

Get this bass setup, which will include setting the intonation.

Second: I wouldn't put any money in an Indonesian Squire instrument, other than setup & strings.

Not looking to start trouble here and certainly no offense meant, but I just bought an Indonesian made Squier Vintage Modified P-Bass and beside doing the usual setup and new strings, I put brass saddles on the stock bridge plate to replace the crappy cast metal originals, put Hipshot Ultralite tuners on it, that bolted right on w/out any problems, to balance it better and paid $15 bucks to have the nut slots tweaked to a better height and width. The saddles and tuners I already had but I really like the bass and it was well worth the upgrades. Before the upgrades it was a shoulder friendly 7 lbs. 4 oz. and it's even lighter now. VERY gig friendly. The tuners not only lightened up the neck and gave the bass better balance, but gave more tuning stability. And the saddles made a noticeable difference in tone and sustain.
I have my first gig with it on Saturday (10th) and then I'll know if I'm going to replace the pickup. As of now, I really like the Duncan Designed original, but without playing it thru my Markbass/Aguilar rig, I won't know for sure. My point here is that for $240 bucks out the door for this bass brand new, I got a very good bass for an extremely reasonable, almost unheard-of price, that sounded very much like any good P-Bass, was light and resonant, has a good neck that's very playable and more importantly, has a good truss-rod and great medium-jumbo frets. I feel that the upgrades to make it more gig friendly weren't a waste of money by any means. I personally do not care if it was made on Mars.
If somebody finds an instrument they like for whatever reasons, and they feel that they want to keep it, there's absolutely nothing wrong with putting money in it to personalize it. Upgraded parts can always be removed if you want to get another bass later on. That's how I had the tuners and bridge saddles. What I would suggest is that if you are having problems with any new instrument that you can't fix yourself, bring it to a qualified tech to see if it can be fixed and also at that time ask the tech's opinion as to whether the instrument in their opinion, is worth keeping and worth any upgrades. )-(

[Ezmar]

Thanks for all the advice, especially doktorfeelgood, since now I know that with some hardware adjustments, I can make it a perfectly acceptable bass. I'm not looking for anything fancy, I just need a bass that feels fine with a nice tone. It delivers the tone fairly well, and I just need to work out some of the glitches. I'm hesitant to try adjusting the truss rod by myself, though. I'm not sure what I'm aiming for. I've got a show in a month or so, but I'll figure something out.

Has anybody else experienced the Off pitch sounding of the E string? It's almost as though It's sharp when I tune it with a tuner, since It sounds fine when I tune it by ear.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by Ezmar

Has anybody else experienced the Off pitch sounding of the E string? It's almost as though It's sharp when I tune it with a tuner, since It sounds fine when I tune it by ear.

bad strings will do stuff like that. the upper harmonics of the string are actually out of tune with the fundamental, so it sounds "off" no matter what you do.

big +1 to getting the thing adjusted properly and re-strung. that will likely solve all these weird problems and make it way easier to play.

[Ezmar]

Thanks a LOT, you guys. This is going to save me a LOT of money in the long run, since honestly, I can get that stuff done pretty much professionally by my brother, who's been dabbling in luthiership. So once I get those strings, I'll be set. They'll be light guage too, so I'll need the neck adjusted anyway.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by Ezmar

What is "This bass setup"? Did you mean get it "set up"?

And what do you mean by the second comment? I got it for Christmas one year. Are you saying that the quality of the wood is also crap? So I should save up and buy a better bass at some point? That's acceptable, but what would a good long-term solution be, since that will NOT happen anytime soon. I have a very limited (read: nonexistent) income, and other matters are more pressing, such as working on my guitar rig. I want to be able to at least comfortably use the bass until I can get a better one. Also, I'm seeing rush this august, so I'm going to see if I can get my Pickguard signed by Geddy. But yeah, any work on the bass is probably not going to happen for a long time, since I can't pay for ANYTHING. I'm currently saving up for a Super-Vee bridge for my guitar, and I've been $50 away for a couple of months now. Bleurgh.

Yes, get it set up. No, don't put any money into it, other than the setup, and strings.