getting low action

[mccartjm]

How can i get the lowest action possible? Should the neck be perfectly straight, or slighty backbowed? Should i be using a light gauge string? Can anyone offer any tips on how to get a pro-level setup w/ out getting too much buzz or a dead spot?

[savit260]

Originally Posted by mccartjm

How can i get the lowest action possible? Should the neck be perfectly straight, or slighty backbowed? Should i be using a light gauge string? Can anyone offer any tips on how to get a pro-level setup w/ out getting too much buzz or a dead spot?

Very little relief, and a seriously good profesional fret leveling job.

How low do you want to go?

What would be your ideal string hight measured at the 12th fret?

[lefty007]

Dead spots have nothing to do with low action.

This is what I do when I setup a bass:

1-Tune to pitch
2-Detune about about 2 steps - or just loosen up the strings a bit.
3-Check neck relief.
4-I would usually set it straight first, let it set (some people say to do this over a few hour or days) and then back up and dial in minimal relief - and I mean minimal. Tune to pitch.
5-Adjust the saddles as low as possible without buzzing.

+If you get buzzing around the first frets, you have forward bow. Put more relief in the neck.

+If you have buzzing in the frets after the 12th, 15th or so, you have too much relief. Try to straighten the neck more.

+If you accomplish all this and still have buzzing, raise the saddles a bit. If the action is too high then with the saddles raised, you could have worn, uneven frets. You need a leveling job by a repairman.

+If your neck cannot straighten with the truss rod maxed, you need to either use lighter strings, or "help" the neck a bit - a common problem in older, vintage basses. I would take it to a tech or repairman for that.


The main concern is, be careful with the truss rod. If you are not experienced at all, better take it to a tech. Truss rod adjustment is not a certain science. It is quite common to overtighten a truss rod and damage the neck because you don't see any movement and think you still have to crank it more, but there are many reasons why a truss rod may not turn.

If you turn the truss rod and it gets really hard and you still have backbow, leave alone and take it to a shop.

But most basses with a truss rod will respond to changes, even with just a little turn.

[mccartjm]

Thanks! I really just want to go as low as i can. Heres a few examples. I have a peavey millennium plus. A great quality american made bass. Well the saddles are bottomed out, the neck is perfectly straight, and the damn g string is like a quarter inch off the board! I have a Carvin B4, which i like more than the peavey. I can bottom out the saddles, make the neck perfectly straight, and i hardly have any buzz at all and super low action. I have a g&L sb-2, i dont even come close to bottoming out the saddles, the action is awesome until you go past the 15th fret. Then every note on the D and A strings is a dead spot, and the E and G are fine, i do compensate for the curvature of the board. I just want to have the strings as close as possible to the board.

[mccartjm]

i habe noticed that when i use super light strings i can get the action ridiculously low, but i want to do the same thing with .50-.110's.

[bassjigga]

Originally Posted by mccartjm

Thanks! I really just want to go as low as i can. Heres a few examples. I have a peavey millennium plus. A great quality american made bass. Well the saddles are bottomed out, the neck is perfectly straight, and the damn g string is like a quarter inch off the board! I have a Carvin B4, which i like more than the peavey. I can bottom out the saddles, make the neck perfectly straight, and i hardly have any buzz at all and super low action. I have a g&L sb-2, i dont even come close to bottoming out the saddles, the action is awesome until you go past the 15th fret. Then every note on the D and A strings is a dead spot, and the E and G are fine, i do compensate for the curvature of the board. I just want to have the strings as close as possible to the board.

If you've got the neck relief fairly minimal and the saddles bottomed out and it's still too high the next step - depending on what the bridge looks like - might be some kind of filing of the saddles. If they are big you might be able to take some material off the bottom and then they'll go lower. Otherwise you might have to get the appropriate files and make the slots deeper.

[mccartjm]

yeah its a hipshot A style bridge. I contacted hipshot and they said that sometimes on basses with top woods, the action ends up being too high and you have to file the slots.

But the question i still have is do lighter gauge strings work better for lower action? In my experience they seem to, but it may have been another factor and im not sure cause i have only had one light set in about two years.

[fretless Bob]

about you getting deadspots on the strings, your probelm could be that the the pickups are too close to the strings and are pulling them down and stopping them from vibrating properly, it happened on my Fodera as they pickups they use have real strong magnets.

just try lowering the pickup a little and see if it helps any


Dave

[savit260]

Originally Posted by mccartjm

yeah its a hipshot A style bridge. I contacted hipshot and they said that sometimes on basses with top woods, the action ends up being too high and you have to file the slots.

But the question i still have is do lighter gauge strings work better for lower action? In my experience they seem to, but it may have been another factor and im not sure cause i have only had one light set in about two years.

Before you file anything, if it's a bolt neck, you can shim the neck. Very simple job that will correct the problem of the saddles being bottomed out. I use a small piece of business card about 3/8 of an inch long, and as wide as the neck pocket, placed all the way to the heel. Bolt the neck back up with the shim, and you should find that you can raise the saddles. If not you can use a second piece on top, but that's almost never necissary from my experience. Cheap and easy fix. Some basses have adjustable pitch necks, and you can adjust it with an allen wrench. Not familiar with your particular Peavey, so I can't say if it has this feature or not.
If it's a set neck, then you may be needing to get a file.

[oddio]

Originally Posted by fretless Bob

just try lowering the pickup a little and see if it helps any

Good call. This might account for the overall "dead" acoustic (unplugged) tone of the instrument that mccartjm mentioned in the Cirrus thread.

[bikeplate]

HI

If its a bolt on, shim the neck. Use a business card or something with a similar thickness. Also, I'm sure your pickups are way too close to the strings. Makes for weird vibrations. Lower them, retest. I'd also try to get the neck as straight as you can. If all else fails, have a pro level your frets and do the work. Good luck

Rob

[mccartjm]

thanks for the neck shimming advice, i never knew about doing that, ill see if that helps. in regards to the pickups, they have always been as low as they'll go. i think the dead tone may have something to do with the fact that im comparing a solid alder body, which i like, to an alder body w/ a quilted maple top, which looks good but i don't like acoustically. But thanks fot the tips.

[savit260]

Shimming the neck will put the strings farther away from the p/u's too. Take a look where the bolts hold the neck to the body. If there is a small hole in the center, towards where the heel of the neck would be, you'll have an adjustable pitch neck. Not sure if the Peavey has this or not, but at least look. If it does, just loosen the neck bolts and turn the pitch adjuster with an allen wrench. Add more pitch, and tighten the bolts. Does the same thing as adding a shim. If it doesn't have that, use a business card as described in the above posts to shim the neck. You'll be all set.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by savit260

Before you file anything, if it's a bolt neck, you can shim the neck. Very simple job that will correct the problem of the saddles being bottomed out. I use a small piece of business card about 3/8 of an inch long, and as wide as the neck pocket, placed all the way to the heel. Bolt the neck back up with the shim, and you should find that you can raise the saddles. If not you can use a second piece on top, but that's almost never necissary from my experience. Cheap and easy fix. Some basses have adjustable pitch necks, and you can adjust it with an allen wrench. Not familiar with your particular Peavey, so I can't say if it has this feature or not.
If it's a set neck, then you may be needing to get a file.

+1

Shim the neck before you do anthing with any files. If you can, find a full contact neck shim. I know at least one luthier who makes them.

[bassjigga]

Originally Posted by mccartjm

thanks for the neck shimming advice, i never knew about doing that, ill see if that helps. in regards to the pickups, they have always been as low as they'll go. i think the dead tone may have something to do with the fact that im comparing a solid alder body, which i like, to an alder body w/ a quilted maple top, which looks good but i don't like acoustically. But thanks fot the tips.

I don't think the alder/maple combination will account for dead spots. If you don't like the tone that's another story. But dead spots have more to do with the neck. It might need a fret dress. There could be a high one causing that since you say it happens above a certain spot.

[ehque]

Originally Posted by mccartjm

yeah its a hipshot A style bridge. I contacted hipshot and they said that sometimes on basses with top woods, the action ends up being too high and you have to file the slots.

But the question i still have is do lighter gauge strings work better for lower action? In my experience they seem to, but it may have been another factor and im not sure cause i have only had one light set in about two years.

hipshot A bridges need to be filed for strings before installation, are they not? they arent meant to be used without filing, even tho a lot of people use them that way (or wait for the string to file its own groove)

light strings have higher tension and thus should vibrate less, giving you more clearance to lower the action. a lighter touch will do the same.

[Figjam]

Very little relief. Heavy gauge. Light strings have less tension. ^

It may seem that light strings give lower action but that is only before one adjusts the neck. Light strings put less tension on the neck which results in less relief which results in lower action at first. However, once you tighten the truss rod, heavy strings will be capable of lower action without buzz.

[Scottgun]

With a neck shim, you do not necessarily want to change the angle, right? But the whole neck in relation to the body?



Scott

[savit260]

Originally Posted by Scottgun

With a neck shim, you do not necessarily want to change the angle, right? But the whole neck in relation to the body?



Scott

No, actually the idea is to add pitch to the neck. Take a look at the basses that have adjustable pitch bolt on necks and you'll see an allen screw that makes contact with a piece of metal in the heel of the neck. Srewing it in adds pitch, unscrewing it reduces the pitch. (after you've loosend the screws ofcourse) The way to add pitch without and adjuster is to add a small shim, (small piece of busines card, sandpaper, etc) to the extreem heel of the neck. You need some pitch in the neck or the actioin will be very high as you get close to the body. The worst example of not enough neck pitch is the earliest Les Pauls where the strings had to be looped under, instead of over the trapeeze tail piece in order to maintain some kind resonable action.
Many guitars and basses have shims right from the factory, or have pitch adjusters built in. The tell tale sign that your neck doesn't have enough pitch is when the saddle adjusters on the bridge are sticking way up, and the saddles are bottomed out.