Getting that "Plays like butter" feel from cheap basses?

micximus · #1 10-07-2009, 11:39 AM

I've been playing bass for about 1 year, and I have two budget basses - (see my sig). Not new to music: Played keys for 15 years and dabbled with guitar.

I've been doing a lot of experimenting & reading on this forum about setup, and I think I've got them both in pretty good shape. But then I go to GC and sit down with a $2k bass and it just plays like butter. The thing is, when I compare my basses to the nice ones, the strings are at the same height, the necks are straight - everything that I can quantify is very close, yet there is a huge difference in feel.

What am I missing? Or is some of this in my head? (GAS)

mytmous · #2 10-07-2009, 11:45 AM

There are a lot of things that could be different between your basses and the higher priced models in the stores. For example, the neck angles could be different, string gauges different, you may have some high or low frets or both, etc. I think there's also a slight possibility of the price tag effecting perception as well. I know that when I play a $99 bass comparing it to a $2k is no contest. My personal opinion is that if the action and relief are set correctly, then it's probably the fret work.

walterw · #3 10-07-2009, 11:52 AM

The number 1 detail that will let a guitar "play like butter" is nut slots that are cut properly, so the strings just barely clear the first fret.

megadan · #4 10-07-2009, 11:56 AM

It's interesting that you point that out, as it is often the reason many of us spending thousands and thousands of dollars looking for the bass with the right feel. Some people get lucky and find it in a cheap bass. Others have to buy expensive, boutique, or custom basses to get it.

My Stingray and Ric definitely play smoother than my Squier's and SX's. But I bet a good setup and a PLEK job could get you pretty close. Cheap basses don't usually receive that treatment, whereas more expensives basses generally expect it.

micximus · #5 10-07-2009, 11:56 AM

Do retailers put light strings on the displays so they will play easily?

DeluxeRed · #6 10-07-2009, 11:56 AM

Believe it or not, the higher-priced basses are actually better than their entry-level brethren. Everything from the materials to construction is of a higher quality. It is hard to quantify exactly what the difference is, and I'm sure many of the differences are trade secrets. You'll hear a lot of noise around here that a $99 bass is just as good as a Custom Shop bass (or whatever), but, as you are finding out, that is simply not true. MOST higher-priced basses are almost always better than any low-priced model. That's why some of us spend the $$--we're not willing to compromise on that playability and quality, nor do we delude ourselves that whatever happens to be within our price range will be just as good as something we can't afford.

Nut slots are a good example: the better bass will be more precisely cut, the assembly into the neck will be to a tighter tolerance, and the materials making up the nut itself will be of a higher quality (as opposed to, say, my MIM jazz who's roundwounds cut right through the nut, while my Deluxe doesn't even show signs of wear, and I play the Deluxe a whole lot more...).

Something to aspire to...

QU!CK · #7 10-07-2009, 11:57 AM

I think the "feel" difference between a budget and high end bass has alot to do with wood choices (and quality of that wood), fit, finish, etc....for example, I have an MTD 535 that plays like butter (lol) and just flat out feels good in my hands. I also have a cheapie rondo bass that I've set up and modded that also feels great!

Now don't get me wrong, the rondo is a great player, it feels and sounds awesome everytime I pick it up.......now it doesn't feel as good as the MTD but I guess it's a different kind of "good".

If different high end basses are comparable to different flavors of your favorite ice cream, I suppose the upgraded cheapies would be like different flavors of cake. Cake isn't necessarily better than ice cream nor is ice cream necessarily better than cake. It's just a matter of which one will satisfy your sweet tooth (GAS)

-J

micximus · #8 10-07-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

The number 1 detail that will let a guitar "play like butter" is nut slots that are cut properly, so the strings just barely clear the first fret.

Cool, that's one thing I haven't paid much attention to.

Stab in the dark here:
If one were to measure the string height at the #2 fret when fretting the #1, would this be the height you are shooting for at the #1 fret on an open string?

Edit: Holy crap this is one heck of an active forum. Responses coming in faster than I can type thank-yous and follow-ups.

Thanks!

micximus · #9 10-07-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

Believe it or not, the higher-priced basses are actually better than their entry-level brethren. Everything from the materials to construction is of a higher quality. It is hard to quantify exactly what the difference is, and I'm sure many of the differences are trade secrets. You'll hear a lot of noise around here that a $99 bass is just as good as a Custom Shop bass (or whatever), but, as you are finding out, that is simply not true. MOST higher-priced basses are almost always better than any low-priced model. That's why some of us spend the $$--we're not willing to compromise on that playability and quality, nor do we delude ourselves that whatever happens to be within our price range will be just as good as something we can't afford.

I wouldn't to suggest that at $99 bass would be as good as a $2k bass. Just trying to discover why - i mean, it's not the price itself that makes it better, (hah, well, maybe for some it is

) but what that price gets you.

Interesting comment about the nut - that's twice it's been mentioned. Methinks I need to check that out.

JLS · #10 10-07-2009, 12:28 PM

You. Get. What. You. Pay. For.

DeluxeRed · #11 10-07-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micximus

I wouldn't to suggest that at $99 bass would be as good as a $2k bass. Just trying to discover why - i mean, it's not the price itself that makes it better, (hah, well, maybe for some it is

) but what that price gets you.

Interesting comment about the nut - that's twice it's been mentioned. Methinks I need to check that out.

What that price gets you: Have you ever slammed the door on a Focus or other low-end car and heard that "Boom" as all of the parts rattle and resonate? Now, have you ever slammed the door on, say, a BMW or Lexus, and heard that "thud" that a well-engineered, well-made, well-fitted door produces? I couldn't tell you everything that makes one better than the other, though part of it is thickness of steel and quantity of insulation.

Same thing with the higher-end basses. I couldn't tell you everything that makes them better, but, like the BMW or Lexus, they ARE better, and you can tell as soon as you "slam the door" on them.

SteveC · #12 10-07-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

Believe it or not, the higher-priced basses are actually better than their entry-level brethren. Everything from the materials to construction is of a higher quality. It is hard to quantify exactly what the difference is, and I'm sure many of the differences are trade secrets. You'll hear a lot of noise around here that a $99 bass is just as good as a Custom Shop bass (or whatever), but, as you are finding out, that is simply not true. MOST higher-priced basses are almost always better than any low-priced model. That's why some of us spend the $$--we're not willing to compromise on that playability and quality, nor do we delude ourselves that whatever happens to be within our price range will be just as good as something we can't afford.

Yep. I used to try and think/believe that a $200 bass was every bit as good as my $2,000 bass but it just isn't true. While there are many GOOD $200 basses out there - more so than when I started 25 years ago - they aren't as sweet as my Sadowsky for example.

I have tried to be happy with a less expensive bass, and I was/am pretty happy with my Yamaha BB605 that I still have, but my Sadowsky gets all the gigs - for good reason.

I'm off the my "insert-cheap-bass-here" is as good as your "insert-expensive-bass-here" thing. It's just not true.

micximus · #13 10-07-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

I'm off the my "insert-cheap-bass-here" is as good as your "insert-expensive-bass-here" thing. It's just not true.

Sure! I've played music long enough to know better than this. As my wife would happily (maybe happily isn't the right word) testify, I'm certainly not of the belief that cheap instruments are as good as expensive ones.

Basstovsky · #14 10-07-2009, 02:14 PM

Its always a matter of what you want out of an instrument. Fretwork/nut are the only thing on my budget basses (an SX and 2 parts basses) I think could make it play better for me, but there are many things pricier basses have that all help incrementally.

A lot of higher end basses have things that people like me don't need or want, cosmetics, fancy electronics, that are nice if you are someone who wants them, but aren't things that affects the playability, and in some cases all it is is the country in which it was made.

On the flipside of this there is also a lot more attention paid to things like neck pockets being nice and perfectly tight to the neck, or being neck-thru to be nice and solid, special woods people find have small but noticeable (to some) effect on tone, better materials for the bridge/hardware, etc.

It is possible to take some budget basses and make them play much better than one would think from their price. Upgraded my SX Jazz with new pickups, nicer bridge, and a good setup, and I find it plays extremely well for a bass I have spent under $300 on, and I don't really find anything lacking.

BUT I'm sure if I had a PLEK job on my frets (ridiculous for a bass of this value but for the sake of arguement) I could get lower and nicer action, and it would play very well.

It's a matter of finding which brands give you what you pay for, versus you paying extra for the brand name or features that are unneccessary. A solid cheap bass can be made to play/sound very well, but it can't compete with proven brands like Sadowsky and Spector, because they have put a lot of work into perfecting their designs. $2K basses may not seem like its worth it to some people (including me), but for those who want something that plays great and sounds amazing right from the company and unmodified, there are basses like that

Pilgrim · #15 10-07-2009, 03:40 PM

No one said that a $99 or $145 bass is as "GOOD" as a $2000 bass. Besides, defining "good" is as easy as determining the answer to "how long is a ball of string?"

BUT - there is no reason that an inexpensive bass cannot be set up to PLAY as easily as an expensive bass. It may take longer to get it there because the initial setup and tolerances aren't as tight, but it can certainly be done.

Benjamin Strange · #16 10-07-2009, 08:48 PM

Most cheap (and some expensive) instruments have uneven frets, straight from the factory. You can do a good setup on a cheap instrument, but if the frets aren't level there's no way it will ever play like butter.

Leveling and dressing frets shouldn't be that difficult for a good tech to do properly. I, in fact, buy most of my instruments cheap, then put about $300-$500 worth of work into them, and viola! Plays like butter.

ByF · #17 10-07-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

Most cheap (and some expensive) instruments have uneven frets, straight from the factory. You can do a good setup on a cheap instrument, but if the frets aren't level there's no way it will ever play like butter.

Leveling and dressing frets shouldn't be that difficult for a good tech to do properly. I, in fact, buy most of my instruments cheap, then put about $300-$500 worth of work into them, and viola! Plays like butter.

I agree. You can't set up the nut slots low enough to "play like butter" if the frets are uneven. You can make a cheap bass play just as easily as a high end bass if you're willing to work on it.

That doesn't means it's just as good as a high end bass. It just means it's easy to play without getting a lot of fret buzz.

Ed

Pilgrim · #18 10-07-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByF

You can make a cheap bass play just as easily as a high end bass if you're willing to work on it.

That doesn't means it's just as good as a high end bass.

My point 'zackly. Maybe it will take more than a setup - maybe fret leveling and a shim - who knows? But it certainly can be done.

micximus · #19 10-08-2009, 09:02 AM

Thanks all, answered my question exactly.

Clearly, my $15 squier P. (thank you craigslist) isn't ever going to *sound* as good as a $2k MIA but you've given me hope that with some more setup work it can at least *play* CLOSE.

Hope I didn't dis anyone's fancy hi-$ basses. I'm certainly not against spending money on gear, and I spend lots on my keyboards, but I know what I'm looking for there.

I just don't feel like I've played bass long enough to know what's important to me and justify sinking lots of money into a nice instrument - yet. My plan is to trade in and out of a variety of cheaper instruments to get a feel for what I like/dislike, THEN drop the big bucks.

micximus · #20 10-08-2009, 09:04 AM