guild b 50 nut/string alignment

kiffen · #1 02-09-2010, 04:14 PM

i need some advice/knowledge here. i play a guild b 50. plays great. the way the bone was cut, looks original, the strings align in a way that has the G string slightly closer to the edge of the neck. the E string is in a good spot. the spacing between the other strings is equal. if i found a good repair shop, would it be safe to assume they would replace and cut another bone to correct this? the main symptom is the G string sliding off the neck sometimes. is this just an error made by the person that assembled the bass? anyone out there who can help?

Turnaround · #2 02-09-2010, 06:41 PM

The photo is of the wrong end of the bass if you are suspecting nut issues. The nut will determine the spacing at the headstock, while the bridge will set it for the body end. Now that's a generality, but we really need to know what's going on at the nut.

If you post a photo of the nut and the first few frets it might be easier to determine if there is a problem there.

John Wentzien · #3 02-09-2010, 07:04 PM

Looks like the problem might be at the bridge to me.

202dy · #4 02-09-2010, 07:41 PM

Thank you for taking the time to post the images. Unfortunately, the image that is needed is a full length shot showing the string lie from nut to bridge.

It is doubtful that the nut is causing the problem. It is more likely that the problem is one of two things. The first is that the bridge shifted when it was being glued. The second is that the neck was not aligned correctly when it was installed.

It will be much easier to diagnose once we can see the image.

walterw · #5 02-09-2010, 07:44 PM

i want that bass, give it to me. GIVE IT TO ME!

ok, um, yeah you can "cheat" a new nut a little narrower to bring that G in a little, and as a more advanced repair, you could have the 4 holes in the bridge filled and re-drilled a smidge over to center up the strings. probably a little expensive, but certainly worth it.

it looks like it must have been late friday afternoon or early monday morning at the guild plant that day.

Turnaround · #6 02-09-2010, 07:57 PM

Assuming that the joint in the top of the bass is in the centre of the instrument (it almost always is) then the bridge looks like it it misplaced to the right of where it should be. Compare the distance of the A and D strings from the joint in the top and you will see what I mean.

202dy · #7 02-09-2010, 08:36 PM

Hard to tell from the photos. Try this. Take two straight edges that are long enough to span the length of the from nut to the bottom of the body (tail block). Place them along the neck. Mark them on the bridge and tail of the guitar on some masking tape. This will tell you whether it is the neck or the bridge that is misaligned, or if the bridge was installed to accommodate the a neck misalignment.

The same can be achieved with one straight edge used twice.

bassteban · #8 02-09-2010, 10:01 PM

hey, I can't help- sorry- but need to say i'm not seeing pics.

Beej · #9 02-09-2010, 10:43 PM

Okay, I looked at the pics in the other forum. What you have looks strongly to me like the bridge was glued just off the centerline towards the treble side.

This could be due to a number of factors, but I wonder about "jig wandering" which is not terribly uncommon in guild's 70's acoustic six string guitars attributed to the wearing down of jigs from usage over the years, that resulted in the locationing of some parts to be slightly off. The most common ones I'm aware of involve having the bridge move slightly towards the neck which affects intonation.

At any rate, it looks repairable to me. If it were mine, I'd remove the original bridge and build a new one from scratch, but slightly larger than the original so that when the new one is glued down, its size covers the old bridge footprint and the relocation "zone". That way, it would be a virtually invisible repair.

Any competent acoustic luthier could do this...

kiffen · #10 02-10-2010, 06:33 AM

thank you beej.

Steveaux · #11 02-10-2010, 10:31 AM

Why not make a couple new saddles?

Locate notches for better string alignment.

202dy · #12 02-10-2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steveaux

Why not make a couple new saddles?

Locate notches for better string alignment.

Couple of reasons. To perform this repair correctly, the bridge pin holes have to be relocated. To really do this right, after removing the bridge the existing holes should be plugged with the same material as the top and new holes bored in the right position. Doing that keeps the string from having to make any sharp bends between the saddle and pin. If the string is sitting in a notch in the saddle it will create lateral pressure on the material. The idea is to couple the vibration of the string directly to the top. This happens best when the pressure is in a vector toward the top. This is especially critical when there is an under saddle pickup installed. Furthermore, depending on the saddle material, it is possible to shear off the top of the saddle. The saddle will undergo unnecessary wear which results in occasional replacement of the saddles.

Plus, it just ain't right.

Steveaux · #13 02-10-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

Couple of reasons. To perform this repair correctly, the bridge pin holes have to be relocated. To really do this right, after removing the bridge the existing holes should be plugged with the same material as the top and new holes bored in the right position. Doing that keeps the string from having to make any sharp bends between the saddle and pin. If the string is sitting in a notch in the saddle it will create lateral pressure on the material. The idea is to couple the vibration of the string directly to the top. This happens best when the pressure is in a vector toward the top. This is especially critical when there is an under saddle pickup installed. Furthermore, depending on the saddle material, it is possible to shear off the top of the saddle. The saddle will undergo unnecessary wear which results in occasional replacement of the saddles.

Plus, it just ain't right.

Fair enough.