Help! with intonation problem

Booneman · #1 03-25-2007, 07:04 PM

I have showed this in a previous thread and got a suggestion to check the seating on the nut. I did a little adjustment to the nut and it didn't really make that much difference. The string is now seated well on the nut. The problem is my note is still too low at the 12 fret.

This is a picture of the bass I'm talking about. As you can see the D string is adjusted all the way out.

I have been playing for 20 years and I have several basses that I have set up myself and this is the only one that i have this problem with.

All the other strings on this bass are in perfect intonation except the D And its still needs a couple more turns. It's almost there but not quite. Unfortunatly the screw has no more adjustment.

Does any one know why its like this? The action is set up fairly normal and the neck has the average amount of relief.
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202dy · #2 03-25-2007, 07:19 PM

There are only two places that can affect the intonation: bridge or nut. If it's not the bridge it must be the nut. Given that it is not a localized problem, i.e. the intonation is off on one or two frets only, these are the only two choices. If it is not the bridge you must necessarily reseat the string at the nut. Blacken the bottom of the slot with a pencil and refile the bottom. You should be able to see the problem immediately. (If it is a black plastic nut, use a white pencil.)

Turnaround · #3 03-25-2007, 08:44 PM

I checked you previous thread, the one with the picture in it. That's just wrong!

Please check that the string is breaking well over the bridge saddle. First put the saddle where it ought to be with respect to the others. Then press down hard on the D string just in front of the saddle (pickup side). Do the same at the nut. Lower the pickups and check the intonation, adjusting as required. If it's still bad I gotta wonder about the string itself. Loosen the string until you can lift it off the tuner. See if it wants to un-twist when you do that. Then slip the winding coils back onto the tuner and tighten it up.

As a last resort, get a pair of sharp wirecutters. Slacken the string completely. Precisely at the half-way point between the nut and the saddle, cut the D string. Get another one and try again.

Baleen · #4 03-25-2007, 09:26 PM

I've had some bad G strings that exhibited problems like this. A couple Warwick Red labels and a La Bella flat. On mine the intonation was also inconsistent. I had to extend the saddle as far as I could to get the 12th fret sharp enough, but that made the 17th fret absurdly sharp. I could only intonate about 2 frets worth of the string above the octave at a time.

I wrote Warwick and they said it was the pickups. I'm not convinced - I had actually lowered my pickups (MM Sterling) in the past and not raised them with these strings.

Years later with the La Bella string (on a 62RI Jazz), I called them and they said it happens from time to time. I sent it back, they mailed me a replacement G and complete set of the same for my troubles. New strings have all been fine.

Booneman · #5 03-25-2007, 11:37 PM

Yeah I'm sure I have this string seated on the nut and it's still not right.
I just got this bass used from ebay. This is the first set of strings I have put on it. I used D'Adario xls. I will try and replace the string tommorrow and post my results. Thanks for the suggestions! I will try all of the above.

202dy · #6 03-26-2007, 10:22 AM

Made a long drive yesterday and was tired when I posted last night. Yes, a bad string can also cause intonation problems.

My apologies.

jsamans · #7 03-26-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turnaround

I checked you previous thread, the one with the picture in it. That's just wrong!

Please check that the string is breaking well over the bridge saddle. First put the saddle where it ought to be with respect to the others. Then press down hard on the D string just in front of the saddle (pickup side). Do the same at the nut. Lower the pickups and check the intonation, adjusting as required.

This is great advice!

I was having exactly the opposite problem of the original poster -- I just put a set of heavy La Bella flats on my P-Bass and my low "E" would not intonate properly, I had the saddle back as far as it would go and it was still coming up sharp at the 12th fret.

The string must not have been seated correctly on the saddle, as I followed these steps (pressing down on the string in front of the saddle) and can get it pretty darn close now -- with the saddle where it "should" be. That big fat flatwound (.110) seems to have not been bending over the saddle correctly.

I've been playing bass for 20+ years, and paying attention to intonation and set up for at least 10 of those years (ha ha!) and had never run into this problem before.

202dy · #8 03-26-2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsamans

This is great advice!

I was having exactly the opposite problem of the original poster -- I just put a set of heavy La Bella flats on my P-Bass and my low "E" would not intonate properly, I had the saddle back as far as it would go and it was still coming up sharp at the 12th fret.

The string must not have been seated correctly on the saddle, as I followed these steps (pressing down on the string in front of the saddle) and can get it pretty darn close now -- with the saddle where it "should" be. That big fat flatwound (.110) seems to have not been bending over the saddle correctly.

I've been playing bass for 20+ years, and paying attention to intonation and set up for at least 10 of those years (ha ha!) and had never run into this problem before.

It is called creating a witness point. The idea is to give or establish a point on the string from which it will speak.

Booneman · #9 03-26-2007, 03:33 PM

ok! who ever guessed it was the string was right.

I canged the D string and it corrected the problem. This doesn't make sense to me, because the string that was causing the problem was brand new.

I replaced it with the same brand and gauge and wow what a difference.

I am now starting to wonder if one string could be so far off, what about every time I change the strings. Are they slightly different every time? Maybe there is something to this whole slow wound thing after all.

I know from now on I will be checking my intonation every time I change strings.

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions!!

fourstringdrums · #10 07-17-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsamans

This is great advice!

I was having exactly the opposite problem of the original poster -- I just put a set of heavy La Bella flats on my P-Bass and my low "E" would not intonate properly, I had the saddle back as far as it would go and it was still coming up sharp at the 12th fret.

The string must not have been seated correctly on the saddle, as I followed these steps (pressing down on the string in front of the saddle) and can get it pretty darn close now -- with the saddle where it "should" be. That big fat flatwound (.110) seems to have not been bending over the saddle correctly.

I've been playing bass for 20+ years, and paying attention to intonation and set up for at least 10 of those years (ha ha!) and had never run into this problem before.

This is an old thread but I wanted to chime in as I just had this exact problem. I just put a set of Jamerson Heavy Gauge flats on and the E (.110) was still a bit sharp even if the saddle was all the way back. I pressed down on the string in front of the saddle, and did this for all the strings just to make sure and it worked. I guess sometimes some strings, especially bigger ones like these just take a little extra to seat at the saddle.

PilbaraBass · #11 07-17-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourstringdrums

This is an old thread but I wanted to chime in as I just had this exact problem. I just put a set of Jamerson Heavy Gauge flats on and the E (.110) was still a bit sharp even if the saddle was all the way back. I pressed down on the string in front of the saddle, and did this for all the strings just to make sure and it worked. I guess sometimes some strings, especially bigger ones like these just take a little extra to seat at the saddle.

Yep...i discovered this a couple of years back...I "seat" the strings on EVERY restring. And yes, the larger the gauge the more sensitive the string is to this witness point issue.

As far as the OP's problem...it's good to keep the old string around just in case one needs to do a test...it's not a common thing, but strings DO come bad out of the box...it's referred to in the industrial world as "infant mortality".