Help me fix my neck dive, please!

mlbarlow · #1 10-14-2006, 10:01 PM

All -

I've got a bass that I like quite a lot, but the neck dive requires me to weigh the bass down with my right forearm. This is a drag as I'm trying to take a very ergonomic approach. For reference (if you know the bass), it's a Carvin AC40F - a semi-acoustic fretless.

I've tried a bunch of different straps, but I'm still open to other ideas in that arena. I've heard that moving the butt-end strap knob lower on the bass will solve the problem, but I'm not really keen on drilling a hole in my bass unless it has to be. (If anyone thinks this is the best idea, and can give me EXPLICIT instructions as to how to NOT screw this up, go for it.)

Anyway, the bass sounds awesome, but I'm toying with the idea of selling it and picking up an LB75 fretless. (Talk me down, please.)

Peace,
Matt

62bass · #2 10-15-2006, 04:39 AM

I have Godin AE that has the same problem. It's that light body that does it and the tuners are already as light as can be found so there's no solution there. I've given up and when I use it I play sitting. I use a Comfort strap which is better when standing. I've never much considered changing the strapbutton's position although it may help. Try fooling around with gaffers tape on your strap and try different positions. If you find one that works, post again and someone will tell you a safe and easy way to mount the strap button there if it's possible.

I have a Carvin BK4 which is the lightest, best balanced and easiest playing bass I've ever owned. I've tried the LB models and they balance nicely too. The sound will be different though. Myself, I'm not much enamored with the piezo pickup sound and prefer a magnetic pickup, but it sounds like you really like yours. Try the gaffers tape experiment and see if that helps.

mlbarlow · #3 10-15-2006, 09:35 AM

62bass ... thanks for your response.

I do like the piezo pickup, especially as a contrast to the very live EMG pups on my 5-string fretted! I'm going to invest in a Comfort Strapp. The gaffer tape is a good idea, but I think when I'm that desperate, I'll sell the thing. I'm kind of depending on the strap doing the trick, esp. as the bass weighs under 7lbs. I am leery about moving the strap button, but we'll see if it's necessary.

spudmaster34 · #4 10-15-2006, 12:19 PM

the tunners might be the problem. I don't know which it usses, but they might be to heavy. if that is the case you can swap them out for lighter ones

tappingtrance · #5 10-15-2006, 12:31 PM

the problem is where the short upper horn on the ac50 - normally the upper horn goes to the 12 fret on basses or past it and that is what stabalizes it, the ac50 has too short of ahorn and it really makes me dislike the bass. i have not figured out a simple way to fix it other than playing it like a classical player with a foot stool

mlbarlow · #6 10-15-2006, 01:20 PM

huh ... that is a great observation, Tapping. Well, I guess I'll see if this comfort strapp thing works (I know there are some TBers who have seen good results this way.) and go from there. It's a shame - it's such a nice sounding and nice looking bass; it's too bad that it's at the expense of playability.

Aarix · #7 10-15-2006, 01:36 PM

What about an acoustic guitar strap strung around the headstock? Or maybe some combination using the strap button and the headstock.

62bass · #8 10-15-2006, 02:27 PM

The short upper horn does contribute to the problem, of course. I can't think of an easy fix for that. I saw one boutique bass that had a folding extension for the upper horn, but this would be a lot of work to design and instal.

I don't think you'll find tuners much lighter than the ones Carvin uses if they are the same as the ones on my Bolt.

I think you can order the LB75 with a piezo in addition to the magnetics. I used a retrofit made by Shadow some years ago and the piezos did add a certain flavour to the sound and could be blended. Unfortunately, the Shadow was prone to failure and hopefully they've been dropped from production. I lost $200 on that experiment. I think Carvin has a system that's reliable. If the comfort strap doesn't help enough, you might think of that. If you order a very light wood from Carvin you should be able to get in under 8 lbs.

mlbarlow · #9 10-15-2006, 08:52 PM

hmm ... the acoustic guitar idea is an interesting one ... I'll have to give it a try

mlbarlow · #10 10-16-2006, 08:07 PM

hey, a guy on the Carvin website forum had an excellent idea ... scuba belt weights! they slide on your strap and give you a good 2 or 3 lbs to counter a heavy neck!

i'll post when I get around to trying it!

superjesus · #11 10-16-2006, 09:17 PM

I'd be careful if you plan on redrilling the bottom strap button or tying your strap behind the headstock.

1. the bottom strap button is likely screwed into an end block or a solid block of wood (from the thru neck) at the end pin area. being that its an acoustic, you seriously risk damaging the side wood by moving the strap button anywhere that isnt made to have a strap button.

2. affixing the strap to the headstock might be a better idea if you can tolerate the bass strapped that way. be careful as there is a lot of tension on the headstock at the bend area from the string tension. adding to the the weight of the bass and your arm, you risk damaging the headstock / volute area. moreover, long term use could lead to a bowed/twisted/warped neck or a weak neck-to-body joint.

TheSuzie · #12 10-17-2006, 05:41 AM

A variation of the scuba belt thing is to sew a small pocket or two on the outside of the strap, could be cloth leather whatever you like. You can then slip in fishing sinkers to adjust the balance. Use velcro for pocket closure if needed.

Sometimes a small imbalance can be helped by securing such weights inside the control cavity if there is room. Depends on the style of the bass of course.

Best of Luck,
S

tappingtrance · #13 10-17-2006, 06:04 AM

you know I wish I could take credit for the horn obsevation but Jean Baudin [check him out]told me about this and the reason I bring this up is he used weights to counteract soome of his 10 and 11 string basses so give it a try. One thing i did was to out a light cord aronud the strap at the back strap button and hold it with my right foot - oddly your foot gets tired of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlbarlow

hey, a guy on the Carvin website forum had an excellent idea ... scuba belt weights! they slide on your strap and give you a good 2 or 3 lbs to counter a heavy neck!

i'll post when I get around to trying it!

Pierced Soul · #14 10-17-2006, 04:56 PM

I had the same prob with my bc rich beast. for a while i used fishing sinkers in the control panel. worked well but added heaps of weight to an already heavy bass.

then it was suggested i use a heavier strap, so I got a wide leather one which wont slip and has bullets up the strap (which suits my style, may not work for you...) and that holds it up well enough i took the sinkers out.

c0d3h4x0r · #15 10-17-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlbarlow

I've got a bass that I like quite a lot, but the neck dive requires me to weigh the bass down with my right forearm.

I've got a 5-string EB MusicMan Bongo that was the same way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlbarlow

I've tried a bunch of different straps

Straps won't change the fundamental problem, which is instrument imbalance. An imbalanced instrument can lead to severe shoulder/back strain and pain and just generally make playing feel like a struggle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlbarlow

I've heard that moving the butt-end strap knob lower on the bass will solve the problem

You heard wrong -- that's backward. To help an instrument that neck-dives, you want to move the butt-end strap button up (to the left of center on a standard right-handed insturment. Imagine a straight line with the two strap buttons as endpoints. The closer you can get that line parallel with the neck, the more upright the instrument will balance.

mlbarlow · #16 10-17-2006, 07:32 PM

so I went to my local SCUBA supplier today and he sold me a 2lb lead weight, which threads through my strap, for $4.50. had rehearsal tonight, and played that bass exclusively (which I wouldn't do at a gig, but it worked out really well)

woo hoo!

thanks for the advice, all!

mlbarlow · #17 10-19-2006, 06:56 PM

this just in ... i tried the comfort strapp, and, while comfortable, it couldn't stand up to the cheap scuba weight

in my opinion, it's the only alternative to selling a neck-heavy bass

EADG mx · #18 10-19-2006, 08:00 PM

I would go for ultra-light tuners.

Why add weight when you can subtract it and get the same results?

62bass · #19 10-20-2006, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlbarlow

this just in ... i tried the comfort strapp, and, while comfortable, it couldn't stand up to the cheap scuba weight

in my opinion, it's the only alternative to selling a neck-heavy bass

I'm glad it's worked out for you. Personally, from too may years of playing neck heavy Fenders live (like about 40 years) and basses that were too heavy anyhow, I developed severe shoulder and neck problems. It doesn't bother you when you're young or if you don't play out much. But it will get you eventually. I'd personally get a bass that was both light and well balanced and sounds good. This can be a tough order. My Carvin weighs in at just 7 lbs and is perfectly balanced. It's great to play live standing up. It's not my favourite sounding bass though but is a dream to play on. My P weighs at least 11 lbs. It balances okay with such a heavy body, sounds great with all the upgrades I've done, but I can't stand up and play it for a four hour gig anymore. So, my alternative is to make the Carvin sound better. It's not bad and sounds as good as most Fender jazz basses do, but I've never cared much for the Jazz bass sound.