HELP! Neck Pocket Alignment Problems!

[agirardeau]

so i posted a thread earlier about sanding down the pocket so my Warmoth neck can fit. It it a good 20 mins but i was able to pretty it up and make the neck fit. In doing so, I found out that the holes that were drilled in the body do not line up with ones that are in the neck!
i know Warmoth's holes are aligned properly, but the ones on the body are crooked. my brother was saying to wedge/hammer some cylindrical pieces of wood with glue on the body to tightly fill the holes and re-drill new holes to line up with the warmoth (correct) holes. i don't know if this is wise, but it kinda makes sense. My dad was saying to use extra screws that would be under the neck plate (other than the 4 that are used) to have extra support, and to just screw in as much as i can with the 4 that are misaligned. The holes are too close to try and aligned them both (look at pic where marks are near Warmoth holes). I certainly hope this is fixable. I love the spalted maple top on the body too much to send it back

[96tbird]

Ok, you should have continued with the first thread instead of opening another. Good picture but do the other two screws line up?

Anyway, If the Body holes are just a bit off, you can make the holes bigger so you can get the screws in. If you have a dremel you can open them up towards the neck holes. The body holes dont have to be a tight fit around the screws and shouldn't be or final alignment of the neck is difficult. Most name brand instruments are built this way, with a bit of clearance around the screws in the body holes. The clamping force of the screws drawing the neck against the bottom of the pocket is what counts. Drop a piece of metal screen in the pocket to keep neck from shifting.

This is the easy way out, will work fine, but the BEST method is:

Choice #1: plug and drill the body. Hard to get the neck holes marked though. I saw on guy found nails that fit snug in the neck holes cut them so the pointed ends stuck out a quarter inch, placed the neck in the pocket, and pressed neck down to mark the body, Then he pulled the nails out with pliers and drilled the new holes in the body.

Choice # 2... Go ahead and plug the holes IN THE NECK with dowel from the hardware store and redrill with the the neck clamped to the body using the body holes as a guide. Use a drill that is the same diameter as the shaft of the screws, not the threads.

Drill the neck holes out clean so the dowel fits in smoothly. Use carpenters glue only and let it set up 24 hours before drilling. Make sure that the holes in the body let the screws pass freely through and only thread into the neck. Mark the depth of drilling with tape on the drill bit. Go slow and don't drill through the neck!

You can plug the body, but lining up the new holes to the neck holes can be a trick.

Sorry Dad, wrong! Since you are spending this money, do it right!

[Turnaround]

I would plug the holes in the neck and redrill them. BUT, it's important to note that the screws will be going partly into the end grain of the dowel, which is not as strong as going into the side of the grain.

So here's what I would do to ensure a good joint. First, I wouldn't drill out the existing holes in the neck. We want to preserve as much of the side grain as possible. Find or make a plug that is a tight fit in the existing holes. Glue them in place with some carpenters glue.

Once the glue has dried, fit the neck into the pocket of the body and clamp it in position. Ensure a proper fit and alignment, then using the body holes as a guide, drill the neck holes. Don't drill too deep! Figure out the right drill depth and use a stop or a tape flag on the drill bit to make sure you don't go too far.

Screw the neck on. Then disassemble it. If the screw holes in the neck touch any part of the dowels you installed (pretty certain they will from your photos), run a bit of thin cyanoacrylate (superglue) into the screw holes. The idea is to have some superglue seep into the wood fibres and harden there. You definitely don't want to see any accumulation of glue in the hole - just enough to seep into the wood fibres and toughen them.

Once dry, reassemble. If you find it hard to tighten the screws, it's probably becuase you put in too much superglue. In that case, carefully redrill and put some soap or wax on the theads of the screws and reassemble.

[walterw]

which holes are "right", the ones in the neck or the ones in the body?

if you say the neck has truly correct holes, i'd keep them and fix the body instead; that way, when you're done, both parts are "right" and will be interchangeable with other stuff down the road, as opposed to making it so both parts are "wrong".

plus, plugging and re-drilling the body will have no impact on structural strength, unlike messing with the neck holes can if not done exactly right.

what's everybody's trick for lining up new body holes?

i haven't had to do that very often, but off the top of my head, after plugging the body, find some long headless screws (or even chop the heads off some fat nails) sized so that they will slide snugly into the neck holes without munging up the threads; put four of them in the neck holes, cut so they're just long enough to protrude a little past the neck holes; clamp the neck to the body, and they should make nice marks to tell you where to drill the new holes.

has anybody instead tried, say, clamping a bit of carbon paper between the neck and body, to see if that marks the hole locations?

[Turnaround]

There's always the lipstick trick. Put snug-fitting dowels in the holes, protruding slightly, coat the ends with lipstick, then put the neck in place. Nice red marks where the holes go.

Unless you use a different colour lipstick.

I prefer to use something pointy though. Much better to mark the centre point of the hole for accuracy.

[JLS]

If you're going to have to jump through these hoops, consider converting to threaded inserts & machine screws.

[SamanthaCay]

Some good suggestions thus far but for kicks here's how I marked and re-drilled a body a wile back.

The first step is to plug the old holes as subjected above.
Re-drill for a clean hole then dowel with wood glue.

Also I have found it can help to wick some ca into the grain of and around the dowel.
That way if your new hole happens to be partially in place of the old hole your drill won't want to slide over into the softer grain of the dowel as much, a drill press with the body clamped will also help.

Now as far as marking the body here's a method I've used a couple times to good effect.
First you will need four sort oval or pan head screws just long enough to bite into the neck and no longer.
Make sure all four are screwed in level.

Next, take some white out or any soft paint (enamel would work) brush it on thick in the general area of where the new holes will be and then carefully set the neck in place before the paint drys.

The idea is that the screws will leave a mark in the soft paint.
If you don't want to get any of the paint in the neck pocked lay some masking tape down first.

Here's some pic's to give you a better idea.

[walterw]

four little dimples creating a square surrounding the center of each new hole location; i like it!

[agirardeau]

thanks for the replies everybody! i think i'm gonna go with option #1 as stated by tbird. it may be more difficult than the quick fix he mentioned, but it would be more neat and benefit for switching out for a replacement neck later (much later) down the road. buchanan, i'm going to use your method for lining up the neck holes (which are the correctly measured holes), with the body. it's such an ingenious way of aligning hahaha. i'm going to take the topic of the how to get a good finish/what stains i need to match the maple body with the koa neck to the "luthier's corner", it seems a more appropriate topic over there :P

[96tbird]

Great, probably the best choice. Remember you can't count on another neck in the future fitting those new body holes; it may, but its not a certainty.