Help please, i think my truss rod is broken :(

stubarura · #1 02-02-2009, 11:55 AM

hiya fellas, i bought a spirit steinberger a couple of weeks back and all was great with the guitar, then last night i decided to get a slightly closer action using the truss rod as it had more relief than i am used to... anyways i took some of the bend out of the neck and adjusted all my heights and tuned her up and the action felt great with no buzzing coming from the frets, however there is a very loud buzz coming from the truss rod and it sounds awful, its deffo coming from the rod because i have took the strings off the bass and when i tap the neck with my knuckle i can hear it buzzing inside the neck... have i ruined my bass?

jees i hope not cos i have really taken to it, can it be fixed?

thanks for the help in advance

62bass · #2 02-02-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubarura

hiya fellas, i bought a spirit steinberger a couple of weeks back and all was great with the guitar, then last night i decided to get a slightly closer action using the truss rod as it had more relief than i am used to... anyways i took some of the bend out of the neck and adjusted all my heights and tuned her up and the action felt great with no buzzing coming from the frets, however there is a very loud buzz coming from the truss rod and it sounds awful, its deffo coming from the rod because i have took the strings off the bass and when i tap the neck with my knuckle i can hear it buzzing inside the neck... have i ruined my bass?

jees i hope not cos i have really taken to it, can it be fixed?

thanks for the help in advance

First off, are you sure it's the truss rod? If it is definitely the truss rod and not something else on the bass that's buzzing, it may not be broken at all, just rattling against the cavity in the neck. Try putting a little bit of tension on it by turning the adjustment nut a little clockwise and see if it stops. Then try it counterclockwise and see what happens. If fooling with that doesn't help, take it to a tech.

If the truss rod is broken it will show up with a bow developing in the neck and you won't get any tension on the rod when you turn the nut.

stubarura · #3 02-02-2009, 07:36 PM

yeah its the truss rod for sure, you are definatly right in what you say about it rattling against the cavity wall, ive tried slight turns clockwise and counter clockwise but it still rattles and its also affecting whats coming through my amp cos it sounds awful, i can still get adjustment on the relief so its not completely shagged but the rattling is unbearable...

62bass · #4 02-03-2009, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubarura

yeah its the truss rod for sure, you are definatly right in what you say about it rattling against the cavity wall, ive tried slight turns clockwise and counter clockwise but it still rattles and its also affecting whats coming through my amp cos it sounds awful, i can still get adjustment on the relief so its not completely shagged but the rattling is unbearable...

There was a thread about this last year and some have suggested injecting some sort of goop (don't remember what exactly) into the cavity to dampen the rattling. I don't know for sure if they have actually done it though, and I haven't either. Maybe wait until someone shows up here who has actually cured such a problem.

I think you're better off taking your bass into a tech and showing him the problem. If he knows how to fix it he will tell you how much it'll cost.

Oren Hudson · #5 02-03-2009, 07:58 AM

One thing for sure. If the rod were broken, you would hardly be able to play it at all since the strings would be way way too high. Try to narrow down where the rattle is and you might could take something like a piece of a toothpick and wedge some quietness in. Good luck.

stubarura · #6 02-03-2009, 08:15 AM

thanks for the advice lads, i played around some more with the truss rod, only turning it slightly and i have managed to stop the rattle inside the neck, however the awful buzz that comes through the amp when i play a note is still there, especially when i play an f-sharp , its as though the whole characteristics of the bass have been changed somehow and the strings are not acting in the same way that they did, they are vibrating differently thus creating this "buzz", also when not plugged into the amp i can hear the noise coming from the string is totally different... im wondering if the rod aint holding the neck of the bass the way it used to or is it possible that my strings are shagged? they are d'addario and have only been in the bass for a couple of weeks...

stubarura · #7 02-03-2009, 08:19 AM

also, when i play around the f note this buzzing shakes gas fire and makes it vibrate (sounds wierd i know) even when the volume is fairly low, it never used to even if it was turned up loud...

Relic · #8 02-03-2009, 08:25 AM

really an odd problem but if the truss rod was broken you would not be able to adjust the neck at all. I don't think it's broken.
Can you take it to a luthier to have it checked out?

Bruce Lindfield · #9 02-03-2009, 08:27 AM

I will make a suggestion - as I had a very similar thing happen to me!

So - I tried to get a lower action on a bass and I got this horrible rattling buzz and I was convinced it was coming from the truss rod - that's what it sounded like anyway.

But I discovered by talking to the bass tech at the Bass Centre in London; that what had happened was that the action had become too low for the nut slots.

So this meant that the strings were touching the fingerboard behind where you were fretting the string - i.e. between your left hand and the headstock.

I say this as it did not sound like that to me - I was convinced the sound was coming from elsewhere and it was only when it was pointed out to me, that I realised it was true.

It was solved by the tech guy, building up the nut slots so they were higher - using ground-up dust from old nuts, with super-glue - then the horrible rattle went!

Bruce Lindfield · #10 02-03-2009, 08:30 AM

PS - the way to check this is to get a piece of card and wad it up - then wedge it under the strings at the nut and see if this stops the rattle - if it does - then you can go for the more permanent solution!

Relic · #11 02-03-2009, 08:43 AM

good point Bruce, he readjusted the neck which would lower the strings across the entire fretboard...
I'm trying to recall what a Steiny spirit looks like, are they all wood or a combo of wood and graphite? Headless?
If not the nut then, I'm thinking that something may simply be loose and rattling around. I would check the p/u's and bridge - anything that could potentially work loose.

stubarura · #12 02-03-2009, 09:58 AM

hi guys, good idea with the cardboard but unfortunatly relic's suspicions are correct, it is a headless bass and basically has no nut, just a fret and there seemed to be a decent gap between the board and strings as i had adjusted everything back to its original position. its an all wood neckthrough design... ive stripped the bass right down to the bare bones and can report that everything was tight and installed the way it should have been... im baffled

Relic · #13 02-03-2009, 10:33 AM

I'm baffled as well.... but regarding what Bruce wrote - as I think about it, it still can be the same issue in principle whether it has a nut or fret, etc. Just for the hell of it try the card? Can't hurt.

Is there a specific part of the bass where this "vibration" seems to be coming from?
Is it one particular string, on particular area of the fretboard, is it from inside the neck, is it centered around the bridge, etc etc Try to pinpoint it. Pinpointing it will go a long way into figuring this out. Are all of the strings seated correctly?

202dy · #14 02-03-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I will make a suggestion - as I had a very similar thing happen to me!

So - I tried to get a lower action on a bass and I got this horrible rattling buzz and I was convinced it was coming from the truss rod - that's what it sounded like anyway.

But I discovered by talking to the bass tech at the Bass Centre in London; that what had happened was that the action had become too low for the nut slots.

So this meant that the strings were touching the fingerboard behind where you were fretting the string - i.e. between your left hand and the headstock.

I say this as it did not sound like that to me - I was convinced the sound was coming from elsewhere and it was only when it was pointed out to me, that I realised it was true.

It was solved by the tech guy, building up the nut slots so they were higher - using ground-up dust from old nuts, with super-glue - then the horrible rattle went!

The phenomena of which you speak is known as back buzz. If you don't know about it you can drive yourself crazy trying to find the problem.

The Spirit has a zero fret. Lining the nut slots will only raise the strings above the fret and change the scale length. But it might show the back buzz.

Testing for back buzz:

Hold the string down with your right hand at the third fret. Push the string down to the first fret. Observe. Is there good clearance? You should be able to slide a piece of notebook paper (feeler gauge .003") between the fret and the bottom of the string. Move to the fourth fret and repeat at the second fret. Repeat through F7. If the back bow is severe it will not show up for the first few frets but will reveal itself somewhere between F5-F9.

The remedy is to loosen the truss rod.

OP: What is the condition of the frets? Are there visible ruts?

stubarura · #15 02-03-2009, 12:37 PM

thanks for the words of wisdom lads, i tried the cardboard insert that bruce was talking about but it made no difference

202dy i shal try that shortly and will report my findings as soon as the sprogs go to bed... once again thanks for your help lads

stubarura · #16 02-03-2009, 03:38 PM

hiya guys, well i set the guitar back up from scratch (and i mean from a totally stripped guitar) taking my time and doing everything by the book... ive set up everything and checked everything, got a credit card thickness of relief and this bass should be sounding great, alas instead of that, it sounds like a cross between a bugle and a trombone

, i can rule back buzz out mate as there was room for the paper but was worth a try... ive also just noticed something else while i was holding the bass and giving it a run through the notes, i gave the open e string a fair old tug but nothing over the top, and could feel the neck of the guitar vibrating and pulsating like there was a little guy in there hitting the inner walls with a sledge hammer, also another good way of describing the feel of the vibration coming out of the amp is like can you remember when you were a kid at school and you would take a sheet of tracing paper and put it between your lips and blow to get that vibration from it that you could feel? well its kinda like that, it sounds like a big fog horn.... after all this ive tried im sure the bass is fooked, there is nothing else i can do other than take it to a tech but im sure he will tell me what i already know... anyways i live in britain and was wondering if anyone knows where there is a spirit steinberger stockist? i gotta get another one as to me they are the perfect bass, ive searched all my local guitar shops and that just leaves the classified ads but i would rather not get another second hand one.... anyways my lass could see how pissed off i have been so she has just bought me a fender jazz deluxe (mex) to be going on with as i really like jazz basses... thanks for all the help and suggestions

Relic · #17 02-03-2009, 04:39 PM

damn, so sorry to hear that...

But - have tech check it out as you have mentioned. I still say that the truss rod isn't broken if it's still adjusting the neck. Maybe a nut or something came off inside..who knows.
Pls keep us posted!
MIM Fender Jazz? Nice!

Oren Hudson · #18 02-04-2009, 08:45 AM

Maybe a stretch, but if it's an active bass, may be time to replace the battery. Based upon my own experiences, some of what you've described could be attributed to that. Just a thought. Good luck.

bassophil · #19 02-04-2009, 09:06 AM

I haven't read the whole thread...

I had a similar problem a few days ago. I called my Basses Luthier and asked him about that dark rattling. He said it's possible the core of a string broke and that could cause a rattling sound. I wondered but changed the strings and the rattling was gone...

Give it a try!

stubarura · #20 02-04-2009, 09:40 AM

hi oren its just a passive setup mate and i was thinking it could have been the strings but the buzz that i get through the anp comes from all the strings, especially open "e" string, f sharp on the "a" string, f on the "d" string and open "g" string so i was thinking it would be more or less out of the question that all strings bust at the same time unless they bust when i loosened them off initially to ease tension on the neck before adjusting the truss rod....