help solve neck dive please

4dog · #1 11-10-2012, 09:43 AM

So i have this peavey milestone II that id like to defret,,my main problem is neckdive i would like some ideas on how to solve the issue otherwise ,, it sleeps in the closet,, maybe switch out the huge club tuners,, thankd

Ezmar · #2 11-10-2012, 10:31 AM

Switching out the tuners would be the thing to do, although I can't make recommendations from experience. Take a look at Hipshot Ultralite tuners and see which ones you like the look of. If you still have neck dive after that, I suppose you can take a saw to your headstock. :P

(PS: Do not actually take a saw to your bass.)

4dog · #3 11-10-2012, 11:17 AM

Ok changing tuners "could" help,, how much mod to tje postholes,, and how a big a pain to mod?? Lol

Sparkdog · #4 11-10-2012, 11:23 AM

Changing the tuners is by far the most effective way to solve this issue. Hipshot Ultralites are the lightest you can buy so may as well just start there.

Not a big deal to install...just measure the pegholes in the headstock to see what size you need and order the matching Ultralite. they install with just one new screw hole in the headstock.

I'm surprised nobody has posted yet to tell you "just get a wide strap!"...but they will. It won't solve your problem. It WILL get you to spend money on a wide strap, then discover that it just pulls at your shirt and strangles you during your gig, then you'll end up buying the Hipshots anyway because only removing weight from the headstock truly works.

Just trying to save you some time

skychief · #5 11-10-2012, 11:28 AM

This is a possible solution to neck dive. But the bass weighs 14 lbs.

4dog · #6 11-10-2012, 11:30 AM

Already went that route wide strap changed nothing,,im a lanscaper by trade so i caaan hold the neck up,, i just dont feel like fighting it ,, and as a fretless,could see intonation probs as unbalanced as it is.

4dog · #7 11-10-2012, 11:36 AM

Maybe i could rig a cinderblock to the body as bad as it is?

Savage_Dreams · #8 11-10-2012, 11:38 AM

I won't say wide strap, I've never seen how that helps. But I did get one of those headsup weighted straps. It completely solved the problem of neck dive on my 12 string. Yes it's extra weight on you, but I find that easier to deal with than trying to play while holding the neck up.

ack · #9 11-10-2012, 11:40 AM

I cured a neckdive issue by moving the strap button on the body up (away from center).

detracti · #10 11-10-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkdog

Changing the tuners is by far the most effective way to solve this issue. Hipshot Ultralites are the lightest you can buy so may as well just start there.

Not a big deal to install...just measure the pegholes in the headstock to see what size you need and order the matching Ultralite. they install with just one new screw hole in the headstock.

I'm surprised nobody has posted yet to tell you "just get a wide strap!"...but they will. It won't solve your problem. It WILL get you to spend money on a wide strap, then discover that it just pulls at your shirt and strangles you during your gig, then you'll end up buying the Hipshots anyway because only removing weight from the headstock truly works.

Just trying to save you some time

+1

My '78 Ripper had some neck dive - not the worst in the world but still.. I switched to Hipshot Ultralites, and it balances nicely with them.

Flux Jetson · #11 11-10-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack

I cured a neckdive issue by moving the strap button on the body up (away from center).

Just yesterday I was mock-fitting my J to do this exact same mod! To me some of the problem seems to be this exact issue, that the strap in attached in the wrong place. It comes down to a bit of simple physics really. Placing the weight below the attachment point.

So I'm glad that you prototyped this first and have already done the proof-of-concept model to prove it's validity as a solution.

Combine this mod with exchanging tuning machines for lighter ones, and problem should be WAY solved!

I have been long-while considering building (yet another) Warmoth using the Explorer body. Guitar players that are in the know realize how well the Explorer body shape is balanced. Unfortunately Warmoth no longer offers the Explorer shape due to active litigation by Gibson. Warmoth can't even use the word "Explorer" any more (nor Thunderbird, or SG). So those body shapes are no longer available from Warmoth.

I suppose it was Karma. Since Gibson but the "STOP" on Warmoth's Explorer offerings, I've had to wait to come up with another solution ... time went by .. this afternoon I happened to be looking for something else in TB and I stumble on this thread ... and BANG .. a combination of solutions is presented that are alternatives to buying and building up another body shape to cure neck dive! And I'm actually making the bass lighter in the process instead of adding weight to the strap.

The Universe can be such a cool thing, if you just let it!

I'm off to relocate my strap button right now! Thank you member ack. Whodda thought that a person with a moniker that sounds like something Bill The Cat would say would have the answers I need?

Haahaa!

Thanks again, kind person. Excellent and courageous modification! I really appreciate function over form.

(Here's proof ... my butt ugly 2-channel Squier J with hyper functional thumbrest ... and soon to have relocated rear strap button).

2 channel modification on a J (many pictures).

Victory Is Mine!

ack · #12 11-10-2012, 01:32 PM

good luck - let us know how the mods work for you. I got the idea from one of the many bright lights here on TB.

BTW, you mentioned Bill the Cat - here's the headstock of that bass I built:

4dog · #13 11-10-2012, 01:47 PM

Alright think ill move the strap button ,,AND,, change tuners cause i hate the huge clover leaf leak,, no offense to any that do like em,, thanks TBers i knew someone here could help,, now off with the frets ,, change fire engine red color to somethin else ,, etc,, etc,, may post pics to show progress,, i love Talkbass. Thanks and this thread can close.

iiipopes · #14 11-10-2012, 02:02 PM

Changing out to Hipshot Ultralights is probably the best bet, if you have the large elephant-ear tuners, as the large Fender-style elephant ear tuners weigh about 4 ounces each and the Hipshot Ultralights weigh about 2 ounces each, so on a 4-string bass that is a reduction of about 1/2 pound. That's what I did: neck dive cured.

4dog · #15 11-10-2012, 02:59 PM

Yeah just pulled the plank apart,, gonna start with tuning heads if thats all i need good,, if not , button move ,, body looks like plywood to me.

walterw · #16 11-10-2012, 09:03 PM

Lighter machines will indeed make the biggest difference; out at the end of that "lever arm" of the neck, minor changes in weight get magnified.

Kmonk · #17 11-10-2012, 09:10 PM

I see a lot of posts about neck dive but I can honestly say that in 34 years of playing and owning many basses from different manufacturers, I have never had this issue. Maybe you should consider getting a strap that actually stays in place.

Flux Jetson · #18 11-10-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmonk

I see a lot of posts about neck dive but I can honestly say that in 34 years of playing and owning many basses from different manufacturers, I have never had this issue. Maybe you should consider getting a strap that actually stays in place.

Gee, I don't think anyone's thought of that yet.

Dude, really?

I've ~only~ been playing since 1992, and have had twenty seven basses. This is an issue with some of them. The strap thing doesn't work for many (most?) people. And to be honest, I really think most of us have tried that. Like someone already said in this thread, all that does is pull on your shirt and make it all wrinkly.

I have a half dozen really wide Levis straps, y'know, those $60 to $80 sumbeeches. They're nice for distributing the weight a bit, and the padded leather is somewhat more comfortable, but if I let go of my J, and gently move around a little bit, the neck just sinks, to roughly parallel with the floor. I'd bet if you tried that it would do the same thing (unless of course you have a nicely balanced bass ... but if you have a J, forget it).

There's a chance you just haven't ever had it pointed out to you. Some people have decades of experience, and others have one year of experience repeated 30 times over.

Playing a well balanced bass with no dive is a total pleasure. It allows you a far better angle on your wrist as well, because you're not busy holding up the neck with the inside of your hand and your fingers are free to work the fretboard, as well as freeing up your fret hand to move about the neck unencumbered. Your palm should not have to even come in contact with the back of the neck, just your thumb.

Try letting go of your bass and bouncing up and down a tiny little bit on the balls of your feet ... if your bass isn't well balanced the neck will sink like a steel toed boot in the water (you hearing us Fender!?!??!).

Or try holding it up with something like a rolling pin, just thread it through the strap and hold it up, it'll roll right down.

My Cort A4 is heavy as an anvil (13 pounds, roughly three pounds heavier than the heftiest J-basses) but it's balanced so well I can play it with my palm not even touching the neck at all .. it's nearly like it's anchored to a stand. The neck literally floats at a 60 degree angle all by itself. I can get my elbow out and use just my thumb behind the neck instead of having to ~grip it~ like a bat. You should be able to play your bass like a guitar player plays a guitar. Now THAT is a well balanced bass. Explorer bodies are well known for that trait as well.

NOTE: I am not saying that the thumb-behind-the-neck technique is "proper" or whatever ... it's just how I am able to move more freely around the neck with greater ease ... me .. myself. If I have to hold the neck up with my palm my playing is far more limited, and I find myself sortof hanging around a restricted area of the neck for the most part. So, just sayin .. it is how I .. me .. plays. Not saying it's "proper" or "the" way it's supposed to be done. Everyone has their own ideas of what ~good~ is.

Flux Jetson · #19 11-10-2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

Lighter machines will indeed make the biggest difference; out at the end of that "lever arm" of the neck, minor changes in weight get magnified.

Agreed .. grams have the strength of pounds when placed at the end of a 24-odd inch long moment.

4dog · #20 11-11-2012, 06:43 AM

For the sake of sanity i will agree i am a novice at dealing with mechanical issues regarding mods amd electronics in musical equipment,, that being said ive been playing for 34 years,,its not the best bass ive ever owned even for the money,,just decided to defret this plank, its been in a closet for many moons,, and rather than trashing it,, just wanted to try and make it somethin different,, but if everytime i grab it,,strap it on ,, and let go ,, the thing points at my feet ,, not even gonna try it,, i WANT it balanced,, no strap unless its 8" wide is gonna keep it in place,, hope i dont sound too peeved,, i got the help i asked for,, lightrt tuners,, move strap button ,, might even pull some wood off the headstock cause i dont like the fender style,, thanks to all,, maybe ill put a strap of barbedwire under a pencil strap that should hold it, lol naah ,, im good,, thanks to all for the help,, think i will start a post for this remod,, mebee