Help! Sterling RAY34 bass with uneven nut..

[dontplaydead27]

Hey guys, I have a concern. About a month ago I purchased a Sterling by Musicman RAY34 Bass, the nice looking, now discontinued Silverburst finish- and my band is recording a CD and when I put down bass for one track and the guitarist did his, we noticed my guitar sounded wrong- out of tune when I had made sure to tune it every other take. This was the low E String mostly- we fixed the trouble with the A- Let me say that when I got the bass I put my 45-105 gauge strings on them, and I play in CGCF.

Bear with me, long story. So we called our friend who knows how to set up guitars, and spent about 4 hours trying to figure out why the intonation is messed up. We got the 12 fret to show in tune, but the farther down you go on the board it was about a half step out of tune- meaning when I played the 3rd fret it wasnt in tune, yet when open it was, and the 12 fret also showed in tune. He tried everything he could think of, he adjusted the saddle and even ended up cutting a spring because we ran out of room to take the saddle back- the neck was fine as he made a minor adjustment with the truss rod. He did some research (also saying that people have complained about getting bad necks with this bass, and the company just sending them a new neck, no questions asked) and came back the next day, and we filed down the nut just enough to get that fat string settled in better, hoping that would be the problem, but it didn't help. Finally, he measured the distance from the nut to the first fret on both sides, and they were slightly different- so it seemed that is the problem, an improperly-set nut.

I talked to Music123, where I bought the bass through their ebay page, and they can only give me a refund. My question, am I really out an awesome Silverburst great sounding bass? I mean I paid $720 for it, and I know I could have someone fix the nut, but it would cost, and I shouldn't HAVE to do that with a NEW bass. I am thinking about calling Musicman and seeing what they say. Has anyone else heard of this problem? I just want any of your opinions on the matter. I fell in love with this bass, and now I feel like I'm not supposed to have it.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by dontplaydead27

Hey guys, I have a concern. About a month ago I purchased a Sterling by Musicman RAY34 Bass, the nice looking, now discontinued Silverburst finish- and my band is recording a CD and when I put down bass for one track and the guitarist did his, we noticed my guitar sounded wrong- out of tune when I had made sure to tune it every other take. This was the low E String mostly- we fixed the trouble with the A- Let me say that when I got the bass I put my 45-105 gauge strings on them, and I play in CGCF.

Bear with me, long story. So we called our friend who knows how to set up guitars, and spent about 4 hours trying to figure out why the intonation is messed up. We got the 12 fret to show in tune, but the farther down you go on the board it was about a half step out of tune- meaning when I played the 3rd fret it wasnt in tune, yet when open it was, and the 12 fret also showed in tune. He tried everything he could think of, he adjusted the saddle and even ended up cutting a spring because we ran out of room to take the saddle back- the neck was fine as he made a minor adjustment with the truss rod. He did some research (also saying that people have complained about getting bad necks with this bass, and the company just sending them a new neck, no questions asked) and came back the next day, and we filed down the nut just enough to get that fat string settled in better, hoping that would be the problem, but it didn't help. Finally, he measured the distance from the nut to the first fret on both sides, and they were slightly different- so it seemed that is the problem, an improperly-set nut.

I talked to Music123, where I bought the bass through their ebay page, and they can only give me a refund. My question, am I really out an awesome Silverburst great sounding bass? I mean I paid $720 for it, and I know I could have someone fix the nut, but it would cost, and I shouldn't HAVE to do that with a NEW bass. I am thinking about calling Musicman and seeing what they say. Has anyone else heard of this problem? I just want any of your opinions on the matter. I fell in love with this bass, and now I feel like I'm not supposed to have it.

I guarantee you, it's not the nut that's making this, "about a half step out of tune". Could be a combination of a bad string, and tuning a .105 that low.

Suggestion: is this "friend who knows how to set up guitars", a professional? Did he, for example, push down on the E string at the saddle, to give the string a "witness point"--this is the first thing to be done, with a bass string that has intonation issues.

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by JLS

I guarantee you, it's not the nut that's making this, "about a half step out of tune". Could be a combination of a bad string, and tuning a .105 that low.

Suggestion: is this "friend who knows how to set up guitars", a professional? Did he, for example, push down on the E string at the saddle, to give the string a "witness point"--this is the first thing to be done, with a bass string that has intonation issues.

I'm with JLS on this one. How does the bass intonate in standard tuning?

[dontplaydead27]

Thanks, I'll mention that to him. No he didn't do that, but you're sure the nut being a few millimeters uneven wouldn't cause such a problem? Do you suggest trying a new bass string? I will forward this on to him, because I don't want to have to return this bass, but you're saying the nut not being perfectly straight across is okay in this matter?

[john grey]

Just something to think about; you are using a different than standard tuning. Your bridge in it's original position may not have the capacity to maintain intonation properly for the difference in tuned key. If your man is cutting springs to attempt to get close that should be a red flag.

Most everything that needs to be said has already been said, so I won't waste time however if you had proper intonation at a standard tuning, it's doubtful that it's a "RMA" issue.
As a generality, it might be best to put the Bass back to original tuning and proper intonation first. Then, string by string, alter your tuning and intonation with each string to determine if there are some string which will need different saddle screws to achieve proper intonation to begin with. When a string drops below a certain tension the physics of harmonic soundings becomes very tough to emulate as it would have in a standard tuning.
The real likelihood of necks with problems is so tiny, it's fragmentary.* But unfortunately someone hears about it and thinks they are the unlucky one. It's very likely that your Bass is fine and you simply need to find the correct balance of string construction / tension and saddle length in the tuning desired.


* Remember on that Bass, you have 3 QC checks in shipping / construction.

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by dontplaydead27

Thanks, I'll mention that to him. No he didn't do that, but you're sure the nut being a few millimeters uneven wouldn't cause such a problem? Do you suggest trying a new bass string? I will forward this on to him, because I don't want to have to return this bass, but you're saying the nut not being perfectly straight across is okay in this matter?

why do you think the nut is not set straight? If you think about it: if the nut was in the wrong spot, you would have trouble with intonation throughout the whole neck.

[dontplaydead27]

Originally Posted by joeyl

why do you think the nut is not set straight? If you think about it: if the nut was in the wrong spot, you would have trouble with intonation throughout the whole neck.

I don't know, it was just a thought after we *seemingly tried everything else. I'm currently trying to find someone in the area who "professionally" sets up basses, as I've decided I'm too attached to this bass to just get rid of it.

[dontplaydead27]

Okay, I just tuned the E string up to E instead of C, and the intonation is nearly dead-on- which I guess makes sense if this bass was set up for standard tuning. Since I don't know dick about setting up a guitar, I figured I'd see what anyone else thought so I could dispense the info to someone who does.

[john grey]

Originally Posted by dontplaydead27

Okay, I just tuned the E string up to E instead of C, and the intonation is nearly dead-on- which I guess makes sense if this bass was set up for standard tuning. Since I don't know dick about setting up a guitar, I figured I'd see what anyone else thought so I could dispense the info to someone who does.

Well, I think that may tell you something: the issue is how much you want that tuning. If a non-standard tuning on that Bass is extremely important to you, you may need to take it to a real pro, explain the situation, and get guidance.

This issue is not something that a hobbyist should tackle IMO. Your friend was there cutting springs on the bridge saddles in an attempt to marginally bring to proper intonation something that he should have researched before doing something [like cutting a spring].

I am NOT putting your friend down - this is just not in his league. And if you want it done correctly, then you need to go to a pro.
The Bass cost you over $700 - that is NOT an instrument that should be mistreated.
If there is need to repositioning of the bridge: to do that correctly will be in the field of a professional. {IF you even want to commit to that.}
IF there is a chance that it could be accomplished with different saddles, etc - a pro would know. You MAY (on a slight level) have to raise the action from both points to allow for the lower vibration as well as alter playing style. But there is no problem with your Bass. A professional could give you some available options, costs, & a realistic approach.
For what you are looking for; it's no place for a hobbyist. It's much better to let someone learn on their own Bass rather than yours.

[stflbn]

I don't think your 'guy' knows as much as he's leading you to believe.

Take it to someone who knows what the hell they're 'really' doing and can deal with the downtuning if you must have it.

At this point you likely have a screwed up nut from your friend has done along with whatever the original problem may have been.

[dontplaydead27]

Yeah I have to play in CGCF, that's what my band writes in and what I'm use to, as my Schecter Elite 4 is set up for it. I had a guy that set up that bass, but I've learned he was fired from the pawn shop he worked at after his guitar business tanked and now I don't know where to find him. This town has one music store, and I was hesitant to take it there because I haven't been wild about their service in the past, but I assume they are professional enough to handle it? I plan on going in there and explaining to them that I want it set up for my tuning, but I fear they'll hand it back to me and the same problem will exist. At that point, I guess I could argue it since I'd be paying money for it.

[RocThrower]

Maybe you could replace your E string with a B string, and tune it up a half step to C instead of tuning the E down 2 full steps? I don't know if this would work or not, and you'd probably need to widen the E slot on your nut, but it could be worth looking into.

[joeyl]

105 gauge in C must be super floppy, I would go at least 110 or 115.

[grendle]

Originally Posted by joeyl

105 gauge in C must be super floppy, I would go at least 110 or 115.

I agree.

This shouldn't be that tough. and a LOT of people tune their Ray's down to C or lower so it's not your bass. Get some NEW thicker gauge strings and set your intonation with new strings. You really cant adjust it with older strings, it's futile. Once the string core gets bent at the witness point, (what your actually setting up at the bridge) it won't intonate very well any where else because your fighting the bend that's already been put in the string.

Also no matter how its set up, if the strings are too floppy every time you hit a string you will knock it out of tune sharp, and then the note will come back. If you wanna tune low and not sound like crap or out of tune , your gonna need to get used to some thicker gauges.

[dontplaydead27]

I am taking my bass down to a shop in Kansas City this week. Yeah I got the vibe from everyone on here that my gauge is smaller than usual for this tuning, but like I said, the guy that owned the music store that I had set up my Schecter for this same tuning, he put 105's on it and I just kept it at that. I will say I have no complaints with my Schecter with those gauges- they might be "floppy" as you put it, but I'm probably used to it, and it doesn't fret out or anything like that. God I can't imagine playing a string bigger than 105 though, but it sounds like I'm going to have to get used to it. I'm going to tell the guy at this shop to use whatever gauge he feels necessary even though I just bought a ton of 2 pack GHS boomers with this gauge for this damn bass to record our CD.