Hipshot 'Vintage' HB3 tuners - are they supposed to do this?

[Fender32]

A while ago, I bought a set of these Hipshot tuners for a bass build ... Link ....

When I mounted them onto the old neck, I had to re-drill three screw mounting holes (and used one of the existing ones) and as a result, the posts were just a little off centre and rubbed against the ferrules . In use, the tuners felt quite stiff, regardless off how much tension I had applied to the screw on the back of the posts, or the allen bolt through the key shaft mounting block .

As well as feeling a little stiff, there was large a 'dead spot' in the tuning action, when switching from tuning up to tuning down. As soon as I reversed the direction of travel, the key would move for about a quarter of a turn before the gear was engaged and the post began to actually move.

I put up with it for long while, but just yesterday I re-installed the tuners on a different neck and made sure that the posts were central and didn't foul the ferrules through the headstock - which they don't. However, I'm still having the same problem, with an unacceptable amount of 'slop' in between tuning up and down .

I've tried different adjustments on the large screw on the rear and the small grub screw which tightens the tension on the key, but neither of these actions do anything other than adjust the stiffness of the key - the slop remains the same !?

So, I am throwing myself on the mercy of the experts. Does anybody know what I'm talking about here and have any words of advice, please? Sending the tuners back isn't really an option, as I don't have a receipt for them now and bought them well over a year ago.

Thanks in advance for any input.

*** PLEASE READ ON TO POST #14 FOR A HAPPY ENDING ***

[john grey]

QUOTE:
"I had to re-drill three screw mounting holes (and used one of the existing ones) and as a result, the posts were just a little off centre and rubbed against the ferrules"


That's most likely the issue. In mounting, the peg-plates are flat, yet the string peg is receiving undue pressure against the bushing element. Those mounting holes must be 90 degree, a shifting of those holes off-centre will create a problem.
Disassemble the tuning pegs and setup the head stock with a drill press or other device to ensure a 90 degree hole. You may need to repair the mis-drilled holes so that you ensure to clean hole for the bushing.

Without cleaning up those mis-drilled holes you will continually have problems.

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by john grey

QUOTE:
"I had to re-drill three screw mounting holes (and used one of the existing ones) and as a result, the posts were just a little off centre and rubbed against the ferrules"


That's most likely the issue. In mounting, the peg-plates are flat, yet the string peg is receiving undue pressure against the bushing element. Those mounting holes must be 90 degree, a shifting of those holes off-centre will create a problem.
Disassemble the tuning pegs and setup the head stock with a drill press or other device to ensure a 90 degree hole. You may need to repair the mis-drilled holes so that you ensure to clean hole for the bushing.

Without cleaning up those mis-drilled holes you will continually have problems.

Hi John and thanks for the reply .

Actually, I was talking about two different basses (necks) in my post. On the first neck, I had the holes slightly mis-aligned, making the tuners a bit stiff to use (and disguising somewhat the 'dead spot'). On the second neck, the tuners do sit straight and don't rub on the ferrules at all - this is when I really began to notice the huge slack spot in the tuning action .

What's more, the tuners still exhibit this problem when they're not fitted to the bass. Just holding one in your hand and turning the key backwards and forwards shows you that there is a lot of slack in between the worm gear of the shaft and the large cog on the base plate. The thing is, they haven't been worn this way - they've always been like this from new .

I've written to Hipshot's Customer Service people (although I'm not expecting much from them) and am going to look around for a set of Gotoh vintage tuners for this bass instead, as I've had those on three other basses before now and they've always worked fine.

[john grey]

I'm not in the habit of "blaming the tools" but I have been watching the posts regarding problems with Hipshot tuners and there appears to be quite a few. excluding normal problems like misalignment, etc....If it were me - I would go with the Gotoh product.

There is less use of nylon, plastic, etc and the overall quality appears higher.
I don't want to seem like I'm knocking the HIPSHOT company - yet it seems like the Gotoh product may be a better bet.

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by john grey

I'm not in the habit of "blaming the tools" but I have been watching the posts regarding problems with Hipshot tuners and there appears to be quite a few. excluding normal problems like misalignment, etc....If it were me - I would go with the Gotoh product.

There is less use of nylon, plastic, etc and the overall quality appears higher.
I don't want to seem like I'm knocking the HIPSHOT company - yet it seems like the Gotoh product may be a better bet.

Yes, I'm wishing now that I had bought the (already familiar) Gotoh ones instead, but (ironically) I actually thought that the Hipshot ones would be a lot smoother because of the nylon bushes and sturdier looking construction . I'm really hoping that my set aren't representitive of their other tuners, as these HB3s were crap straight out of the box!

I've already written twice to Hipshot Customer Service and they haven't replied to either email, so I have no qualms about 'bad-mouthing' their company a little here.

C'est la vie !

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by Fender32

I've written to Hipshot's Customer Service people (although I'm not expecting much from them)

they usually take good care of their customers. Regarding the tuners, I know on my ultralites I can tighten the allen screw at the bottom of the stem to remove slop..but I have never used their vintage style tuners though

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by joeyl

they usually take good care of their customers. Regarding the tuners, I know on my ultralites I can tighten the allen screw at the bottom of the stem to remove slop..but I have never used their vintage style tuners though

Hi Joey,

Tightening the screw on the HB3s just makes them graunchy and stiff to turn, but the slop's still there (on my set) . I probably have a 'Friday afternoon' set .

Anyway, as you predicted , Bill at their Customer Service dept. has emailed me today and is offering to be very helpful in resolving the matter . I'm sending him a video report of the problem and might receive a replacement set. Let's see!

I'll keep you'll updated .

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by Fender32

Anyway, as you predicted , Bill at their Customer Service dept. has emailed me today and is offering to be very helpful in resolving the matter . I'm sending him a video report of the problem and might receive a replacement set. Let's see!

I'll keep you'll updated .

Cool

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by joeyl

they usually take good care of their customers.

You were right about that, Joey. Bill, their Customer Services man, has offered to exchange the tuners for me (even though I don't have the packaging any more ).

He seems like a very genuine guy and apologised for the delay in answering my emails.

Seems that I was wrong to despair so quickly (and publicly ), but let's wait and see if the new ones arrive and work better, before getting to carried away with the praise .

[berwick63]

Originally Posted by Fender32

You were right about that, Joey. Bill, their Customer Services man, has offered to exchange the tuners for me (even though I don't have the packaging any more ).

He seems like a very genuine guy and apologised for the delay in answering my emails.

Seems that I was wrong to despair so quickly (and publicly ), but let's wait and see if the new ones arrive and work better, before getting to carried away with the praise .

Glad to hear you got everything sorted out!

On a side note, Posting things here isn't a bad idea. Talkbass is a site thats visited daily by a lot of people, including people from big name and small name companies. So, in theory, you might've gotten Hipshot's attention through here.

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by berwick63

Glad to hear you got everything sorted out!

On a side note, Posting things here isn't a bad idea. Talkbass is a site thats visited daily by a lot of people, including people from big name and small name companies. So, in theory, you might've gotten Hipshot's attention through here.

That had crossed my mind, I must admit. I suppose that it's one of the good things about the Internet - in the past, you'd have to write a letter to complain about something like this and if the company it went to chose to throw it in the bin, that was that !

Equally, it's nice to be able to hand out praise for good customer service (if you're fortunate enough to experience it ).

Totally off topic, but I can easily imagine that Roger Sadowsky wouldn't be the (bassist's ) household name that he is now, if it wasn't for this forum and the countless number of people who've sung his praises over the past 5 years or so.

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by Fender32

Totally off topic, but I can easily imagine that Roger Sadowsky wouldn't be the (bassist's ) household name that he is now, if it wasn't for this forum and the countless number of people who've sung his praises over the past 5 years or so.

Roger Sadowsky has been a household name since before the Internet as we know it, and even before that to the bass playing cats in NYC.

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by joeyl

Roger Sadowsky has been a household name since before the Internet as we know it, and even before that to the bass playing cats in NYC.

In NYC households and elsewhere in the US, no doubt . Not so over here in Europe though.

I can trace back the interest shown by European bassists to the (very enthusiastic) posts about Sadowsky basses in TB threads to the time before the Metro series were available over here and can't help thinking that the series wouldn't have been such a success without the 'hype' which preceded its arrival in European stores !?

Either way, Roger's company is certainly well enough known over here now . Just shows - Internet chat forums are a force to be reckoned with in the world today (just look at what's happened with regard to 'the Arab Spring' for proof of that ).

[Fender32]

Well, I've swapped quite a few emails with Bill at Hipshot over the past few days and have been delighted with the way he has offered to help me (by replacing my tuners, FOC) .

I asked him if I could reproduce some of what he'd written in his emails, as it might benefit other TB users to understand more about how the company operates. He said that I can use whatever I want. So, I just thought that I'd post some direct quotes here ....


"There is one thing that I would like to ask you. If you ever have any problems with our products, please contact me right away. Our company is built on our reputation, but more importantly we do care about the customer and want them to be happy with our products. Being a playing musician, I have had my emails ignored by some in the past, who am I kidding, they still do! I'm not a fan of the deaf ear policy and I do understand the helpless feeling of unanswered emails."

" I haven't visited Talkbass for sometime now, though I should start. People need to be informed about companies and the only way at times is from word of mouth. Please feel free to use anything I've written to you in any way you see fit. We learn from our mistakes, and that is how we grow and get better.
I should tell you that Hipshot is still a small company, we have about 20 people. All of our jobs overlap other areas. For me, I do custom builds, design work, new projects and customer service. I also do some Management work, fill in for people who are out and when it's my turn...clean the restrooms. The owner is out with us every day working one or more of the CNC machines. He is my boss, my supervisor, my co-worker and more importantly, my friend".

Anyway, I think that you get the idea now - Hipshot are a company who do care about their customers and are very appoachable and NO, I wasn't paid to say this .

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by Fender32

In NYC households and elsewhere in the US, no doubt . Not so over here in Europe though.

I can trace back the interest shown by European bassists to the (very enthusiastic) posts about Sadowsky basses in TB threads to the time before the Metro series were available over here and can't help thinking that the series wouldn't have been such a success without the 'hype' which preceded its arrival in European stores !?

Either way, Roger's company is certainly well enough known over here now . Just shows - Internet chat forums are a force to be reckoned with in the world today (just look at what's happened with regard to 'the Arab Spring' for proof of that ).

Interesting. I did not know that.. Roger is a very cool guy, I remember him answering my newb emails

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by joeyl

Interesting. I did not know that.. Roger is a very cool guy, I remember him answering my newb emails

Roger is a very cool guy, I'll second that .

Actually, all of these major forces in the market, who run their companies remembering the best elements a small, family business, get my repsect .

[Fender32]

So, after many weeks on the high seas, my replacement set of Hipshot HB3 tuners finally washed up on the shores of Germany, today .

Right away, I could feel that they were free of 'slop' and more precise than the previous set and once installed, they provided the kind of smooth, accurate tuning which I expected in the first place.

After comparing the old and new sets side-by-side, I really couldn't identify exactly what it was that was causing the problem, but it just seemed that the teeth meshed together better on the newer ones.

Reading this will provide no great comfort to Hipshot's Customer Service team, I'm sure, but at least the rest of us can rest assured that any (rare) inconsistencies in production will be more than made up for by excellent after-sales care .

My new Hipshot tuners are the smoothest operating open gear tuners that I've ever had on a Fender bass (MusicMan ones work better, for some strange reason) and perform the way that I had expected them to when I first chose this brand over the other options on offer.

I'm happy, once more .

[joeyl]

cool!!

[Fender32]

Originally Posted by joeyl

cool!!

See Joey? You were right all along - they do take good care of their customers .