How deep should a nut be cut in relation to the fretboard?

Juniorkimbrough · #1 12-12-2006, 09:23 AM

I've begun to notice a trend on some basses that I've owned that seem to be very difficult to setup with no fret buzz....the spacing between the bottom of the nut slot and the top of the fretboard. This may be old news to a lot of you but it's something I just recently noticed.

For example several Fenders I've owned were very hard to setup the string height somewhat evenly up and down the fretboard without getting fretbuzz. I've also owned some Fenders that were exactly the opposite.

My Lakland JO5 is what made me notice this nut issue with some basses. The Lakland is cut relatively higher than some of my Fender so that the bottom of the string is high enough where it doesn't buzz on the 1st couple of frets and the action is set evenly up and down the fretboard.

My question is........Is there some sort of measurement I can go by to tell how deep a nut slot should be cut in relation to the top of the fretboard? I plan on replacing the nuts on the Fenders I am having issues with.

Thanks!

Poop-Loops · #2 12-12-2006, 09:48 AM

My isntructor told me that when you press down the 3rd fret and hold it down, then tap the string at the first fret, there should still be some space for the string to move, but not much. Haha that's so vague, but if there's a whole lot of space (the string doesn't move) or it's hard to tap down the string at the first fret while holding it down at the 3rd, then it's not cut properly. However, I've only had to "fix" one nut for my bass and it was a crappy $140 one, so I wasn't overly concerned about it. I fixed it, but I didn't have the pressure of fixing a good bass on me. So I'd take it to a tech.

Giraffe · #3 12-12-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juniorkimbrough

My question is........Is there some sort of measurement I can go by to tell how deep a nut slot should be cut in relation to the top of the fretboard? I plan on replacing the nuts on the Fenders I am having issues with.

Thanks!

Jr., the nut slots need to be cut to a comfortable depth relative to the tops of the frets, rather than the top of the board.

Try fretting or putting a capo at the third fret, then measure the clearance between the top of the first fret and the bottom of each string. You can use a feeler gauge to measure the clearance. If you have an instrument that plays perfectly for you, record those measurements and use them as a guideline when evaluating instruments that don't play perfectly for you. Measure a bass that doesn't play right for you, and eyeball the measurements compared to a righteous playing bass' measurements. You can zero in on your own sweet spot, although all instruments seem to want a slightly different set-up.

This only takes a few minutes, and uses hardware store feeler gauges that only cost a few bucks. You probably want to see about .005" on the treble side, a little more on the bass side. This assumes that your neck relief and bridge height are at least in the right ballpark for you, so get everything else at least very close to where you will want it to be.

I usually dispense with the measurements, and just watch the distance traveled when fretting and unfretting each string at the first fret. I have gone too low using this method more times than I like to recall!

The Craw · #4 12-12-2006, 10:09 AM

Different companies, different setup standards. But IME Fenders tend to be too high at the nut, not too low.

What makes you think that the buzz on your Fenders are caused by too little height at the nut? Buzzes can be caused by too little relief, uneven fret height, bridge saddles too low, bridge saddles that rattle, a nut slot that doesn't slope backwards, insufficient down pressure at the nut, etc.

I shoot for a nut slot height ranging from about .010" higher than the top of the first fret on the E to about .005" on the G, and adjust to suit my taste.

**Rodent** · #5 12-12-2006, 10:43 AM

you've got some good advice so far in that the proper height depends on several factors, and fret height is a major player

so many of the companies doing mass produced basses are shooting for something that works well enough for a majority of the players, realizing that the pros out there will either have a pro set-up job done after purchase or simply do it themselves. same story for fret leveling, string height, adjustable spacing, etc ...

a new mass produced bass is delivered with simply a starting point for the overall set-up.

all the best,

R

**Rodent** · #6 12-12-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennW

A dead giveaway that the nut slots might be too low is buzzing with open strings, and the buzz goes away on fretted notes.

this could also indicate that the first fret is too high

all the best,

R

Juniorkimbrough · #7 12-12-2006, 12:17 PM

Thanks for the suggestions!

Yes, I realize the size of the actual fret comes into play also.

From my experience if a nut is cut too low you have to have more bow in the neck to keep the string from buzzing on the first couple of frets whereas a nut that is cut right, the neck can have less bow to it because the strings are high enough where they will not buzz on the first couple of frets and it will have relatively consistent string height the length of the fretboard.

Human Bass · #8 12-12-2006, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Craw

Different companies, different setup standards. But IME Fenders tend to be too high at the nut, not too low.

True!! Im thinking on get some professional help to "trim" the nut.

**Rodent** · #9 12-13-2006, 09:13 AM

and all this discussion on nut heights just goes to once again reveal the true beauty of a zero-fret design

all the best,

R

Bass · #10 12-13-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juniorkimbrough

...From my experience if a nut is cut too low you have to have more bow in the neck to keep the string from buzzing on the first couple of frets whereas a nut that is cut right, the neck can have less bow...

Hey, good tip! I just finished cutting a new nut (this was my first one). It turned out OK, I thought. But when the weather changed the bass started to buzz a little on the first two or three frets! I have the relief set quite low.

So I guess I shaved the nut slots a little too low.

I read somewhere that you could use a construction pencil to mark nut slot depth. The pencil needs to be filed on the wide flat surface until the lead is exposed. Then, mark the nut by drawing the pencil across the first two or three frets. The lead mark will be at the same height as the top of the frets.

pkr2 · #11 12-13-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodent

and all this discussion on nut heights just goes to once again reveal the true beauty of a zero-fret design

all the best,

R

Absolutely!

Which opens the question: If a zero fret works perectly (and they do), and the Zero fret is the same heigth as the rest of the frets, Why would one leave a nut notch so the string is higher than it would be with a zero fret? I actually do, but just a tiny bit so when the string wears into the notch, the notch wont be too deep. No more than a very few thousandths of an inch.

**Rodent** · #12 12-13-2006, 10:42 AM

pkr2 - you could cut your nut this way, but then you'll potentially have the string vibrate on the zero fret like it would a high fret elsewhere on the neck. I always cut my nuts so that the string is not touching the bottom of the nut slot, as this ensures that the string is firmly planted on the zero fret. with a zero fret, the nut is merely a spacer so to speak

GlennW - agreed that it's interesting to see only the opposite ends of production manufacturers using a zero-fret ... but more and more small-time builders are catching on

it is more common to see basses with zero frets than thin strings

all the best,

R

pkr2 · #13 12-13-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodent

pkr2 - you could cut your nut this way, but then you'll potentially have the string vibrate on the zero fret like it would a high fret elsewhere on the neck. I always cut my nuts so that the string is not touching the bottom of the nut slot, as this ensures that the string is firmly planted on the zero fret. with a zero fret, the nut is merely a spacer so to speak

GlennW - agreed that it's interesting to see only the opposite ends of production manufacturers using a zero-fret ... but more and more small-time builders are catching on

it is more common to see basses with zero frets than thin strings

all the best,

R

I didn't make myself clear (as usual lol).

What I meant was, if you didn't have a zero fret, Why would the bottom of the nut slot be higher than the top of the 1fret? actually, it was kind of a rhetorical question.

Juniorkimbrough · #14 12-13-2006, 01:48 PM

Good point Rodent!

Is it possible to fill the nut slot with some material to raise the string just a fraction or would this not work very well?

I love the action low on my basses but I do tend to dig in a bit and most of the time this requires me to have my action just a tad higher than I'd like.