How deep should the route be for Original Badass on a Fender?

[TL5]

I've searched the forums and Google.

Everyone seems to know that a Fender has to be routed for an original Badass bridge. However, I can't seem to find any information as to how deep the route should be.

fwiw, I already have the bridge. I removed from a no-name bass sometime in the early 80s and it's been in the tool box since.
I'm thinking of installing it on my MIM P bass.

[lethargytartare]

I had to read up to see what you were talking about. If it's because the base is thick, do NOT do any routing. First just try mounting it, and see what you get as far as a setup goes. If the saddles are bottomed out, and the action is still too high, then shim the neck. I can't imagine an original BA bridge is so amazing that it's worth permanently scarring your bass (even a MIM) just to mount it. Consider selling it and buying a more current one that is a direct replacement -- fewer headaches!

Good luck!

ltt

[JTE]

The original BA was designed for Gibson basses, not Fenders. It's very thick and requires substantial routing to get it to fit (and you need to clear out some wood behind it so you can get to the intonation screws too).

MY opinion is that it's not worth that kind of work and expense. If you don't like the stock Fender bridge, there are other replacements that fit without so much damage and that give all the purported advantages of the BA. There are some from Gotoh, there's the Schaller roller bridge, and Fender sells several high-mass variations too.

But if you're determined to use an original BA, then just do some measurements on YOUR bass and the bridge in your hands to see what it'll take.

John

[dmusic148]

I'm confused. I have what I believe is an original Badass, no routing required. Pics?

[lethargytartare]

The real original one is just a lot thicker. Don't know why specifically since I don't have any of those basses. But still: it makes more sense to sell and buy one that fits, or try to get it to work with a shimmed neck. OR, get a cheapie bass body, and rout that to see if you even like the end product. If you do, then go nuts on your MIM.

As for the depth:

You'll want to make a routing template so you can get a clean job, yes? With a template, you can easily just rout out 1/16th" at a pass, test fit the bridge, check the action. use some double sided tape to mount some blocks that will allow you to remount the template in precisely the same place.

OR

go with measurements. Compare the height of the saddles when set to their lowest point to the height of the BA saddles at their lowest point. (Compare the highest points too so you know you'll have sufficient range for setting the action) The difference between those two measurements should be what you need -- some of the experienced builders here might have a better approach since I'm just thinking through how I'd go at it IF I were going to do it. But I wouldn't do it :-)

Whatever you do, post your choice, results, etc.!

Cheers!

ltt

[redstrand]

Badass bridges are a direct replacement for fender...If it's an original that doesn't fit use another bridge. Don't route the bass for one bridge. Especially if it's not the right one.

[Pilgrim]

I sure wouldn't route the body on any Fender, including an MIM, to mount an original Badass. Sell it to some sucker on Ebay and get a bridge that doesn't require routing.

And if the original bridge works fine, why mess with it?

[AltGrendel]

Originally Posted by JTE

The original BA was designed for Gibson basses, not Fenders. It's very thick and requires substantial routing to get it to fit (and you need to clear out some wood behind it so you can get to the intonation screws too).

Ummm, don't think so. I got one for a Gibson Ripper when they first came out, had to put a 1/4 inch shim underneath to get it to work. And as I recall, all the marketing was for Fender basses.

Originally Posted by JTE

MY opinion is that it's not worth that kind of work and expense. If you don't like the stock Fender bridge, there are other replacements that fit without so much damage and that give all the purported advantages of the BA. There are some from Gotoh, there's the Schaller roller bridge, and Fender sells several high-mass variations too.

I agree with this. I'd also take the old bridge off, place the BA bridge in place and eyeball the height to make sure. It may not need a thing.

[Lesfunk]

Originally Posted by AltGrendel

Ummm, don't think so. I got one for a Gibson Ripper when they first came out, had to put a 1/4 inch shim underneath to get it to work. And as I recall, all the marketing was for Fender basses.

Ok guys, here's the Truth... from www.Leoquan.com

BASS BRIDGE

This is the original BADASS® bass bridge that put us on the map 25 years ago. It has substantial mass and great tone. It is not a direct replacement for a typical FENDER® bridge, but more of an OEM or builder's style bridge.

BASS II BRIDGE

The BADASS® Bass II is a direct FENDER® bridge conversion, requiring no modifications or alterations to your bass. You can always change it back.

BASS V BRIDGE

This is a 5 string version of the BADASS® II bass bridge that has become world famous over the years as a replacement for FENDER® bridges. This is one of the best bass bridges you can buy and is in use on countless basses worldwide.

[AltGrendel]

Originally Posted by Lesfunk

Ok guys, here's the Truth... from www.Leoquan.com

BASS BRIDGE

This is the original BADASS® bass bridge that put us on the map 25 years ago. It has substantial mass and great tone. It is not a direct replacement for a typical FENDER® bridge, but more of an OEM or builder's style bridge.

BASS II BRIDGE

The BADASS® Bass II is a direct FENDER® bridge conversion, requiring no modifications or alterations to your bass. You can always change it back.

BASS V BRIDGE

This is a 5 string version of the BADASS® II bass bridge that has become world famous over the years as a replacement for FENDER® bridges. This is one of the best bass bridges you can buy and is in use on countless basses worldwide.

Well done, Sir.

Thanks for clearing that up. Should have though of that myself.

[rob4001va]

Originally Posted by JTE

The original BA was designed for Gibson basses, not Fenders.

I have an original BA-1 on my 76 Gibson G-3. Pretty much a perfect replacement IIRC (since I made the change in the early 80s).

So, this sounds right, although Leo Quan may not have stated it as such in the web post in the more recent posts in this thread.

Mine is just my experience with this bridge. I also have a Fender Geddy with the BA2. If you want to put a BA on the Fender, I'd go with the BA2 and sell the old one.

[lethargytartare]

Could you folks (who own gibbys or original BAs) add some detail to explain why it's significant that the original BA was designed for Gibson basses? That fact, by itself, doesn't actually explain why the bridge is NOT suitable for anything else, or can't be simply dropped in.

Mounting holes aside, what is it about Gibson basses that required special characteristics in the original BA bridge that, in turn, make them difficult to use on Fender basses? Did the Gibsons have set necks with steep pitch to them, are the fretboards simply higher off the body, etc.?

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Since I see no real value in bolt on neck bodies regardless of the make, a routing would be one choice IMHO. I'd start with a 3mm pocket and test. Shimming the neck would be perhaps better if the pickup(s) sticking quite high up won't bother You.

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

Could you folks (who own gibbys or original BAs) add some detail to explain why it's significant that the original BA was designed for Gibson basses? That fact, by itself, doesn't actually explain why the bridge is NOT suitable for anything else, or can't be simply dropped in.

Mounting holes aside, what is it about Gibson basses that required special characteristics in the original BA bridge that, in turn, make them difficult to use on Fender basses? Did the Gibsons have set necks with steep pitch to them, are the fretboards simply higher off the body, etc.?

You answered your own question there .

As I recall, the original Badass was designed to replace the two and three point "Oil Rig" Gibson bridge. Since the Gibsons have a severe neck angle the "rig" sits rather high and the base of a "normal" bridge has to be that much thicker to compensate.

A V-83 Flying V guitar with a Kahler tremolo for example has a plastic mounting spacer to raise the bridge that works as-is on most of the applications.

Regards
Sam

[lethargytartare]

Thanks Sam!

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

Could you folks (who own gibbys or original BAs) add some detail to explain why it's significant that the original BA was designed for Gibson basses? That fact, by itself, doesn't actually explain why the bridge is NOT suitable for anything else, or can't be simply dropped in.

Mounting holes aside, what is it about Gibson basses that required special characteristics in the original BA bridge that, in turn, make them difficult to use on Fender basses? Did the Gibsons have set necks with steep pitch to them, are the fretboards simply higher off the body, etc.?

Gibsons have a very different neck angle and also a lot of them had narrower spacing. In the days that the Badass was created, there were a lot more problems with Gibson bridges than Fender. While the original Fender bridges were pretty low mass, they still did a good job of coupling the strings to the body, whereas the Gibson arrangement left a lot to be desired in this department. I had a Badass I on both a Gibson EB2D and a Guild Starfire (which now sports an Alembic style bridge) and it was an upgrade to both. The bottom of the Badass I is very thick and would require a lot of routing on a Fender or radical reshimming of the neck.

The Badass I has screw holes in a very different spacing from the Fenders and the Badass II fits perfectly. There is no good reason on this earth to put a Badass I on a Fender type bass.

Phil Lesh had one on his Alembic custom bass for a while in the 70s. Not sure why it would be considered better than an Alembic bridge. Maybe they thought the large surface area of contact would be an improvement.

Edwin

[JTE]

Originally Posted by AltGrendel

Ummm, don't think so. I got one for a Gibson Ripper when they first came out, had to put a 1/4 inch shim underneath to get it to work. And as I recall, all the marketing was for Fender basses.

As pointed out above, the original BA was not for Fenders. The first ad I saw showed the band Montrose endorsing BA bridges. Ronnie Montrose had one on his Gibson guitar (the Leo Quann replacement for the Gibson stop bar/wrap-around bridge) and his bassist with a BA on a Rick 4001.

The original BA shipped with a metal shim plate too (as did the Schallers for a long time too).

Bottom line, I don't see any good reason to route out a Fender to put an original BA on. Find a BA II or get another high-mass bridge if you think it'll help in any way. YAHOO (You Always Have Other Options).

John

[TL5]

Originally Posted by JTE

It's very thick and requires substantial routing to get it to fit (and you need to clear out some wood behind it so you can get to the intonation screws too).
John

Thanks everyone.

John, the parenthetical part pretty much rules this out. A nice, clean, drop in would not have bothered me too much. That last part, just won't cut it.