How do I get a consistent action?

[Distant Cousin]

Probably best to say straight off that I don't know an awful lot about setting up a bass. I know the basics of how to adjust the action, intonation etc. but that's it.

I've been trying to set up my MM Stingray 4 for a while now and I'm not having much success. A combination of getting it repaired & serviced, and it lying unused for a few months means that the default set up I bought it with (that I loved), has gone.

I like a low action on a bass, and I can't seem to get it on my Stingray. I can get a nice action up to about the 11th or 12th fret but from there it's way too high. Any amount of adjustment to the truss rod just seems to further this problem or give me the opposite and a ton of fret buzz.

I can't seem to get the intonation right either. The G String's intonation is way out, any note beyond the 12th fret is completely out of tune, but no adjustments to the intonation make any difference?

I'm sure I'm doing something completely wrong here, so can anyone tell me how to set up my Stingray for a nice, consistent low action, and sort out the intonation?

Thanks!

[lowendfriend]

Make sure you are doing it correctly. Start with the sticky on the front of this forum. Personally I like the Ultimate Guide by Jerzy Drozd, but all of the references help you understand.

Be methodical and patient. Follow the recommended sequence (this really matters...you can't just jump in and start tweaking saddles if you are trying to get it right). Make small adjustments. go to www.stewmac.com and buy one of the steel rulers for doing setup measurements. And then Use It.

This is not everyone's cup of tea. If you can admit it's not yours, it pays to get the setup done by a pro.

[Distant Cousin]

Ah, I didn't notice that sticky! Duh.

To be honest I would much rather have it done by a professional but I'm so short on money at the moment that I don't have a lot of choice.

[BluesWalker]

Around my neck of the woods, a pro setup usually costs about $35.

[pasta4lnch]

fwiw I started doing my own set-ups recently after playing for over 2 decades . . . I'm still fumbling through it, but I love the way my instruments feel now much better - keep at it!

[steelhead2]

you need to shim the neck between the lower mounting screws(toward the body),i use strips of sandpaper,and judge what i need by naming them a`320 shim' 150 shim' 80 shim based on the grit of the sandpaper(thickness),then adjust your saddles from there,you can use whatever paper you have

i don't recomend it unless you feel it's the only way to get the strings down`on the board'. i do it all the time as the extreme weather changes here with 4 seasons seem to make it mandatory ,,my most recent bass was`OK' then with new and stiffer/thicker strings i had to.

everybody has a dif idea of ideal string height so don't take my suggestion as gospel,i'm not a tech in any way i was forced to figure out setup by my first bass i'm still figuring it out on a daily basis,now i'm into frets and nuts

take a look at your saddles are they all over the place? measure from the nut to the saddle down each string as a starting point,it takes time to do it all tune,intonate,saddle height DO AGAIN, you should be able to find sweetness,,takes awhile,and a chromatic tuner,i always do the`final' with instrument on my shoulders and amp so i can be sure no buzzing(saddle height adjustment) then back to the tuner etc. etc.(just keep going over it)good luck

[dave_bass5]

+1 to Shimming the neck.
I tend to do it to most of my basses, even though i can get a good action without it. Although i dont really go past the 12th fret much i prefer the action to be more horizontal up that end rather than getting higher to quickly.

There is a great,easy to follow guide here.
http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=49897

[Distant Cousin]

Got it a little better now from tinkering with it. Action is still a little high but I think I can get that pretty nice eventually.

I'm thinking about putting light gauge (.40) on my bass. I use regulars at the moment (.45). Do I need to do anything to the action etc. when I put lighter strings on?

[lethargytartare]

If your action is great 1-12, but too high beyond, that sounds like the saddles are simply too high. If lowering them causes buzz in the first 5 frets, then the nut (or its slots) is probably too low. And if the intonation is impossible to set, that suggests some other settings are pushed to extremes -- hard to say based on a text description.

Start simply: measure the string height at the 1st fret, measure or check your relief, check the position of your saddles. Stingray's are great beasts, and you should expect to be able to get great action without shimming the neck. And you should be able to find lots of folks here with SRs who will share their measurements with you so you can tell if you are just after something particularly tight, or if you can expect to get more improvements.

FWIW I've never shimmed a neck to address action issues. Shimming the neck changes the relationship between a lot of the parts, and if it works to lower your action, the something else is probably out of whack. I have only ever shimmed necks when (a) my saddles are bottomed out and I need them to go lower, or (b) I don't like the screw tops sticking above the saddles, so I want the same action but higher saddles.

[lethargytartare]

Originally Posted by Distant Cousin

Got it a little better now from tinkering with it. Action is still a little high but I think I can get that pretty nice eventually.

I'm thinking about putting light gauge (.40) on my bass. I use regulars at the moment (.45). Do I need to do anything to the action etc. when I put lighter strings on?

Yup -- you'll want to run back through the whole setup. You may find you don't have enough relief any more (lower tension pulling on the neck), the intonation will probably need setting, and you might find that the strings are TOO low depending on how much you dig in -- they might flap and clank too much, and you might find you want slightly higher action with them.

[bass12]

I was going to say "get a girlfriend" but that's clearly not the answer you're looking for...

[Hookus]

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

If your action is great 1-12, but too high beyond, that sounds like the saddles are simply too high. If lowering them causes buzz in the first 5 frets, then the nut (or its slots) is probably too low. And if the intonation is impossible to set, that suggests some other settings are pushed to extremes -- hard to say based on a text description.

Start simply: measure the string height at the 1st fret, measure or check your relief, check the position of your saddles. Stingray's are great beasts, and you should expect to be able to get great action without shimming the neck. And you should be able to find lots of folks here with SRs who will share their measurements with you so you can tell if you are just after something particularly tight, or if you can expect to get more improvements.

FWIW I've never shimmed a neck to address action issues. Shimming the neck changes the relationship between a lot of the parts, and if it works to lower your action, the something else is probably out of whack. I have only ever shimmed necks when (a) my saddles are bottomed out and I need them to go lower, or (b) I don't like the screw tops sticking above the saddles, so I want the same action but higher saddles.

This.

I have built several basses now, and have long since learned how to set up a bass like a champ. The better I learned to set up, the less need I had for shimming. I really can't think of any decent quality bass that would require shims. This would indicate you have a problem somewhere else, or the neck pocket was not routed at the correct depth to begin with (doubtful on a Stingray). About any normal bass bridge and truss rod will allow you to set up any bass properly, barring damaged components like a bent neck.

When you start your setup (which WILL change with string gauge, thinner strings have less string tension, fatter strings have more), you should start out by removing the strings, setting the neck flat, and measuring from the nut for your initial saddle position. Only string it and start the setup after you have "centered" everything that is adjustable. Then, just follow the steps. I like Fender's setup guide, personally, but any decent guide will get you where you want to be.

And remember, measure string distance with the guitar in playing position. If you have powerful magnets in the pickups and you do the setup with the guitar flat, the magnets can deflect the strings down enough to give you a false height measurement. Then, when you pick the guitar up to playing position, the action will be higher than you had originally thought.

[Philbiker]

ALL BASIC SETUP QUESTIONS ANSWERED HERE

[dave_bass5]

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

FWIW I've never shimmed a neck to address action issues. Shimming the neck changes the relationship between a lot of the parts, and if it works to lower your action, the something else is probably out of whack. I have only ever shimmed necks when (a) my saddles are bottomed out and I need them to go lower, or (b) I don't like the screw tops sticking above the saddles, so I want the same action but higher saddles.

If it works then it works, i dont see why it shouldn't be used as part of a set up. Its even on the MrGearhead website in the setup section.
Its not for everyone but loads of people do it for various reasons.
To be honest mine are the same as you. On the Fender HM bridges the current MIA use i find the saddle screw tops stick right out and rip my hand to pieces if im not careful.
But i also do it to have the action lower above the 12th fret. Again, loads of people do this. I cant see any other way of getting the action like this without shimming and it works perfectly on my basses. Not tried it on my Ray24 though.

[Pilgrim]

I think a shim is a reasonable thing to use IF needed. First try the setup without it, and then add one only IF needed. I'm perfectly happy either way as long as the action is suitable for me.

[Hookus]

Originally Posted by dave_bass5

I cant see any other way of getting the action like this without shimming...

Sure you can. This is why all saddles are adjustable, and almost all neck heels are not. If you imagine that the nut, heel, and saddles form a triangle, you can get the same shape triangle by moving any single point, using the truss rod for correction. Normally the single point that moves is the bridge saddles. While you are correct that shimming the heel serves a similar (but not same) effect, There are very few reasons to pick the most difficult of all three points to move rather than just the saddles. Unless the neck pocket of routed either too deep or too shallow for the saddle hight to compensate, why not move the point on the guitar that is designed to be adjustable. ANY action you get by moving the heel can be accomplished by moving the saddle height, trust me, draw it out on paper if you need to, but geometry doesn't lie. You can make two identical triangles by moving just a single point. The problem is when you shim, you are moving the entire triangle with respect to the body of the guitar.

Besides the above mentioned improper neck pocket depth (which should be based in part by the bridge you intend to use, measuring the height with the saddles adjusted to the center of their range), I can't really think of any reason to monkey with shimming.

Shims remind me of those little donut spare tires. Yeah, the car still drives...

[dave_bass5]

I'll take your word for it but its not something ive been able to do with any of my basses.
Adjusting the truss rod and saddles allows me to get the ideal action but i nearly always end up with a slightly higher action from around the 12th fret to the 20th (not that ive ever played that high).
Now while shimming might be the most difficult of the three unless the neck pocket is perfect and so the angle of the neck (not the bow) is spot on i really cant see any way of getting the higher frets lower without messing with the overall action. Just making the neck straighter doesn't do this IME.

Maybe ive just been unlucky with my basses. MY current MIA Jazz does indeed seem ok, not perfect but i could live with it.
A shim will actually help but more with the bridge saddle screws though. At the moment the E is a tapered E so the saddle is quite high, even though the action is only 2mm. When i go for a non taped E im going to have to lower the saddle quite a bit and the two options are get shorter screws (i did this with my P5) or shim.