how will paint affect the tone of a bass?

[phatbassdood]

I'm considering pulling the trigger on a squire fretted vmj, and I quite like the idea of the body being white. what impact would this have on the tone of the bass?

thanks

[PSPookie]

It depends on the type of music you would be playing.

[Rune Bivrin]

Some would describe it as less coloured. Maybe a shade brighter.

[Mr M]

Green basses tend to give a unripe sound whereas the red ones give somehow seasoned. Don't know about the white color though...

[stedtale]

i hope you don't mean white paint vs. red paint...

the color of the paint will not affect the tone. nor will the paint itself.

how often to you hear a song and say, "wow that guy's playing a green bass." unless of course it's MM

or how often do you hear a "painted" bass sound?

[Rune Bivrin]

Maybe this is a very shrewd attempt at pointing to racial differences in bass playing? He could be refering to his own body.

[phatbassdood]

thanks for some funny replies fellas, I thought I'd read somewhere that painting the body had a negative impact on the sound. Obviously not, judging from the above.

Rune - I almost made a comment along those lines

[TjD]

I think that Phatbassdood doesn't mean the paint itself, but the layer(s) of varnish instead. I also believe that there actually is a difference between varnished basses and natural oiled basses (that's why e.g. Warwick aplies an oiled finish and no layers of varnish... don't they?)

The thing is, i don't know how to put it in words. A non-varnished bass sounds a tiny bit less 'compressed' and more 'transparent'? I always feel it as a more 'breathing' sound...

[stedtale]

Originally Posted by Joshua

While I appreciate the efforts of all in regards to humor and jocularity, the OP might have been referring to finished vs. unfinished bodies. There are strong opinions in the bass world about the sonic differences therein.

I thought I did a good job of both...for once

[Rodent]

the only way one can say with certainty and authority that an instrument finished with X sounds different than an instrument finished with Y or Z would be to approach this in a closed test environment:

- assemble the complete instrument in an unfinished state, perform a set-up keeping precise notes on the pickup and string heights, and then go to a studio and record it direct to the board to a prearranged midi accompanyment

- disassemble the instrument and finish it with a nitro finish, perform a set-up precisely matching the earlier noted pickup and string heights, and then go to a studio and record it direct to the board to the same prearranged midi accompanyment

- disassemble the instrument and remove the nitro finish, then refinish it with a poly finish, perform a set-up precisely matching the earlier noted pickup and string heights, and then go to a studio and record it direct to the board to the same prearranged midi accompanyment


- disassemble the instrument and remove the poly finish, then refinish it with an oil finish, perform a set-up precisely matching the earlier noted pickup and string heights, and then go to a studio and record it direct to the board to the same prearranged midi accompanyment


once you have all three 'identical' recordings, anonymously play them to a target audience in random order without disclosing which recording is which. have the target audience select which recording is which, and rate each recording on the instrument sound qualities. once all of this data is collected publish the results


this would then become a difinitive study you could reference for a finish war type of discussion.


any kind of finish war discussion without this kind of validation is merely a pot of boiled tripe steeped in fascism and mythology

all the best,

R

[phatbassdood]

Originally Posted by Joshua

While I appreciate the efforts of all in regards to humor and jocularity, the OP might have been referring to finished vs. unfinished bodies. There are strong opinions in the bass world about the sonic differences therein.

that was exactly what I meant, I feel slightly less embarrassed now

[phatbassdood]

Originally Posted by Rodent

the only way one can say with certainty and authority that an instrument finished with X sounds different than an instrument finished with Y or Z would be to approach this in a closed test environment:

- assemble the complete instrument in an unfinished state, perform a set-up keeping precise notes on the pickup and string heights, and then go to a studio and record it direct to the board to a prearranged midi accompanyment

- disassemble the instrument and finish it with a nitro finish, perform a set-up precisely matching the earlier noted pickup and string heights, and then go to a studio and record it direct to the board to the same prearranged midi accompanyment

- disassemble the instrument and remove the nitro finish, then refinish it with a poly finish, perform a set-up precisely matching the earlier noted pickup and string heights, and then go to a studio and record it direct to the board to the same prearranged midi accompanyment


- disassemble the instrument and remove the poly finish, then refinish it with an oil finish, perform a set-up precisely matching the earlier noted pickup and string heights, and then go to a studio and record it direct to the board to the same prearranged midi accompanyment


once you have all three 'identical' recordings, anonymously play them to a target audience in random order without disclosing which recording is which. have the target audience select which recording is which, and rate each recording on the instrument sound qualities. once all of this data is collected publish the results


this would then become a difinitive study you could reference for a finish war type of discussion.


any kind of finish war discussion without this kind of validation is merely a pot of boiled tripe steeped in fascism and mythology

all the best,

R

this was the kind of answer I was looking for, - maybe it does, but it's not glaringly obvious

[phatbassdood]

Originally Posted by TjD

I think that Phatbassdood doesn't mean the paint itself, but the layer(s) of varnish instead. I also believe that there actually is a difference between varnished basses and natural oiled basses (that's why e.g. Warwick aplies an oiled finish and no layers of varnish... don't they?)

The thing is, i don't know how to put it in words. A non-varnished bass sounds a tiny bit less 'compressed' and more 'transparent'? I always feel it as a more 'breathing' sound...

so by a tiny bit, d'you mean of a level only noticeable with a good set of ears, on a fantastic hi-fi, with no other instruments playing?

[joelb79]

Real tone can be found in pickguards. Tort is the way to go, it gives you a nice fat bottom while opening up the highs a bit to allow your tone to breath. Black pickguards give the marcus miller tone, and no pickguard gives you a raw tone much like jaco.

[stedtale]

Originally Posted by phatbassdood

so by a tiny bit, d'you mean of a level only noticeable with a good set of ears, on a fantastic hi-fi, with no other instruments playing?

See Rodent's post.

[Rodent]

Originally Posted by phatbassdood

this was the kind of answer I was looking for, - maybe it does, but it's not glaringly obvious

it could be glaringly obvious, and then again there might be absolutely NO difference ... but until you perform a detailed test like I note in my previous post you will not know if any difference you may hear is attributed to the finish or simply due to a different piece of body/neck wood from the same species

I would R-U-N as fast as you can from anyone who claims that there is a difference unless they have also done such a test utilizing the exact same neck and body throughout the entire process.

all the best,

R

[roonjuice]

my orange bass is faster an louder than my green bass

scientificus FACT

[Lesfunk]

A yellow bass will Sound Yellow and a Blue bass will be better for blues.
A brown bass might sound good but play like poop!

[rjny36]

There was a time when different colored basses were supposed to be "Seperate but Equal," though that didn't work out very well.

Through years of righteous struggle, basses became increasingly more integrated in regards to color, and now, in this more enlightened age, it is clear that basses are neither inherintly better nor worse because of their color; that they should be judged solely by the content of their character, and the tone they project out into the world.

[permagrin]

I wish I had some creative humor to add....

As for finished vs unfinished, on both occasions that I melted/sanded off body finish it had a pronounced (and positive) effect on tone - I attribute it to the body wood being able to vibrate more easily and impart its character more to the basses' overall tone. Seems to "open up" the sound and not sound "pinched off".

I'm pretty sure that's the reason why a good many 70s Fender basses got stripped of their thick "bowling ball" finishes.

But (most) woods need some protection. One of those basses was a poplar Kramer bass that I put a wax finish on (hardwood floor wax). Pretty crappy, but hey, that bass sounded a whole lot better (the original finish was a very thick polyester) (I still have that body hanging in my garage, I've ginen the neck a new body). The other was a Squire P bass, not mine, not sure but I think the kid I was helping out ended up spray painting the bass, pretty ghetto....

I also have a '73 P bass that I bought unfinished (a previous owner stripped the black paint off its alder body). It had several nicks and dings that I had to sand down - I took off quite a bit of material but there were still two areas that were so low I didn't go far enough - the "belt buckle rash" spot and a patch above the E string where I assume a previous owner spent a fair amount of time planting his thumb. I stained the wood a bit (tried to match the nicely yellowed headstock) and put I think just 3 coats of polyurethane that I had thinned down at least 50/50 with paint thinner or naptha. I had a feeling that that finish would only offer minimal protection while still letting the body vibrate. I don't think it altered the tone much from unfinished (mission accomplished!), and the finish has held up remarkably well, that was about 7-8 years ago now.