I can't truss it: tuning, inton. prob

[magikmarker]

Hey hey,
So I have a newbie question. I have a new (to me) bass that I can't intonate well at all. It's a Fender Squire Precision.

With my strobe tuner, I can get the open strings in tune. But everything is sharp at the 12th fret. In fact, it's a little sharp at 3rd fret even.

So I moved the saddles back and forth for an hour, twisted the truss rod (mostly to the right), but nothing seemed to get fretted notes to stop being sharp. Aack. Frustration mounting.

What completely obvious thing am I missing?

Reward: Free Ampeg b15 or Mesa Titan or Fender Bassman 135 to first correct answer.

(Just kidding re reward).

[blendermassacre]

what strings are you using? when you move the saddles, you're loosening the string, correct? how off is off?

[magikmarker]

Thanks, man. The strings are medium flatwounds, newish. Yes, I've loosened and tightened saddles. The strobe tuner clarifies the sharpness for any fretting note (where open strings are IN TUNE), but the ear can hear too.

Stylistically, this makes me want to bend and smear most notes. I wonder now if Jaco developed his style in response to a similar intonation problem.

Also, I have strings on backwards so that G is on the top of guitar.

[Deathblade Eric]

Originally Posted by magikmarker

Also, I have strings on backwards so that G is on the top of guitar.

Question. When you strung it this way, what did you do about the nut?

[magikmarker]

Re Query: To string it upside down, I removed the nut and reversed it (so that the biggest slot is still there for the low E).

I wonder if this reversal could impact the bridge or neck as well--and tuning via that. I have noticed that the low E is not fully in the saddle slot. But the other strings are sharp when fretted too (even G), so it's not simply an E thing baby. Differential diagnosis anyone?

[Chris K]

If you turn the nut, in most cases the strings wil be a sniff longer, since if you look at the nut from aside, you'll notice the nut edge is on the fretboard side, not in the middle.
You can''t compensate this by mving the saddles, so you need to replace the nut (with a left handed nut),

Buy a piece of graphite or bone at a luthier's shop and ask if you can borrow a set of nut files.

The string has to sit on the bottom of the nut and not hang between the sides.

[Droot]

Originally Posted by Chris K

If you turn the nut, in most cases the strings wil be a sniff longer, since if you look at the nut from aside, you'll notice the nut edge is on the fretboard side, not in the middle.
You can''t compensate this by mving the saddles, so you need to replace the nut (with a left handed nut),

Buy a piece of graphite or bone at a luthier's shop and ask if you can borrow a set of nut files.

The string has to sit on the bottom of the nut and not hang between the sides.

Although this may be the problem I would ask the writer a simple question. Why the truss rod adjustments? Although the truss rod adjustments will affect intonation, they are not normally a part of intonation setup beyond getting your neck bow set.

The only time I ever saw a neck that was as far off as you are saying yours is was when I bought a 99$ bass that had the bridge set to a 35" scale position and a 34" scale neck. No amount of adjusting the bridge could make it right, and it acted like what you have described (off by the 3rd fret). You might want to measure the distance from the back edge of the nut to mid point on the A or D string bridge saddle, then take a measurement from the back of the nut to the 12th fret. The second measurement should be 1/2 of the first within an 1/8 of an inch.
DRoot

[251]

Originally Posted by magikmarker

Hey hey,
So I have a newbie question. I have a new (to me) bass that I can't intonate well at all. It's a Fender Squire Precision.

With my strobe tuner, I can get the open strings in tune. But everything is sharp at the 12th fret. In fact, it's a little sharp at 3rd fret even.

So I moved the saddles back and forth for an hour, twisted the truss rod (mostly to the right), but nothing seemed to get fretted notes to stop being sharp. Aack. Frustration mounting.

What completely obvious thing am I missing?

Reward: Free Ampeg b15 or Mesa Titan or Fender Bassman 135 to first correct answer.

(Just kidding re reward).

The truss rod will not affect intonation. It sounds like what you are missing is a good set of instructions. Take a look this;
http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Setup

[Deathblade Eric]

Originally Posted by magikmarker

Re Query: To string it upside down, I removed the nut and reversed it (so that the biggest slot is still there for the low E).

I wonder if this reversal could impact the bridge or neck as well--and tuning via that. I have noticed that the low E is not fully in the saddle slot. But the other strings are sharp when fretted too (even G), so it's not simply an E thing baby. Differential diagnosis anyone?

Aha! What's happening is that the strings are now bearing on the trailing edge of the nut & not the leading edge. Effectively you've increased the scale length by a tad, which means all the fret placements are out of whack, which is why you can't intonate it.

Either get hold of a new L/H nut for a Squier P, or as Chris K suggests have a go at making your own. The slots need to go downhill slightly from the fretboard towards the headstock - that way the string bears on the very leading edge of the nut & normality should return.

Pete.

[magikmarker]

Thanks for this theory. It really makes sense in terms of all fretted notes being slightly out of tune. My local guitar store wants to sell me a bone nut that they'll cut to order. Very pricey, though, and bad attitude too.

A friend has recommended an excellent luthier--for my bargain (sic) instruments. My new left-handed Les Paul copy has the same problem. I'll do that.

[Pacman]

moved to Hardware, Setup and Repair.