I killed my Fender/Schaller bridge saddle [PICS]

[giacomini]

OK, I'm dumb.

So here I'm cleaning my 1992 P-Plus for a string change and it happens that the FOOL ME stripped the screw hole in the A string saddle...

Now the thing goes about 8 turns and stops.

The bridge I'm talking about is this one (made by Schaller):


You see, I swapped the A string saddle with the G string, so the "screwed" one is the G string saddle (I did this because the G saddle is usually the one that sticks out the most towards the neck).

You can see here, looks rather normal:


Swapping it kinda corrected intonation, but the G string is still off by a few cents SHARP, and there's no more turns, believe me, after I noticed I forked it I forced it even holding with pliers, and it WON'T go any further.

Closer look:


I'm now off to the sad Customer Relations journey, it already started, so let me get you an update:

This is the answer Schaller sent me, and below, my original email:
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: WG: Kontaktemail
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:20:07 +0200
From: Lars.Buenning@schaller-electronic.com
To: gustavodgiacomini@hotmail.com


Dear Mr. Giacomini,
many thanks, we don`t produce this bridge anymore for years now.
All spare parts went to Fender.
Please ask them directly, they should be able to help you.
Kind regards
Lars Bünning

Schaller Electronic GmbH
Dr. Lars Bünning
Geschäftsführender Gesellschafter
Managing Director - Owner

An der Heide 15
92353 Postbauer-Heng
Deutschland/Germany
Nbg. HRB 22913
Steuer-Nr.: 201/138/00055
USt-IdNr.: DE 250 628 367
Tel.: 0049/(0)9180 910 0
Fax: 0049/(0)9180 910 55
e-mail: Lars.Buenning@schaller-electronic.com
www.schaller-electronic.com




------------------------------------------------------------
Von: info@auctores.de [mailto:info@auctores.de]
Gesendet: Montag, 12. Juli 2010 07:02
An: Dr. Buenning Lars
Betreff: Kontaktemail


Mr./Mrs.: Mr. (*) First Name: Gustavo (*)
Surname: Giacomini (*)
Company:
Street: Hermes Zapelini, 62
ZIP-Code: 88110-050
Locality: Sao Jose - SC
Country: Brazil
Telephone: +554832462854
Fax:
E-Mail: gustavodgiacomini@hotmail.com (*)
Subject: Bass bridge (*)
Message: Hi!

I've got a 1992 Fender Precision Plus equiped with the stock Schaller/Fender high mass fine-tuning bridge. I don't know the parts' number but that was the standard in the P-Plus from 1989 to 1993, and it has "Fender" scribed on top of it.

It happens that I disassembled it for a clean and when I was putting it back together I stripped the screw hole in the "A" string saddle, so now the screw goes for about 8 turns and stops. I can't adjust intonation. Looked around, even eBay, and didn't find those saddles to sell anywhere... I know that's an old model, but I'm asking the manufacturer as a last resort. Would you have saddles that fit this bridge? If you don't, would I be able to find a metal workshop that can cut the screw grooves back or is it impossible? I will not change the brigde, my bass is all stock and I intend to let it stay all original.

Thanks in advance.

Gustavo Giacomini
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Then here I go to Fender Customer Relations:
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gustavo Giacomini (gustavodgiacomini@hotmail.com)
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 10:23:29 PM
To: consumerrelations@fender.com

Hello!

I'm forwarding a message I sent to Schaller regarding a bass saddle on my 1992 Precision Plus (SN: N2914866). I stripped the screw hole in the saddle while re-assembling it, so now I can't adjust intonation (the screw goes about 8 turns in). I know this fine-tuning high mass bridge was made by Schaller for you, but like Dr. Bunning said, they don't make it anymore and the spares went to Fender.

Is there a way to buy one new saddle/screw/spring to fix my bridge?

Many thanks!

Gustavo Giacomini
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Still waiting for a reply from Fender...

SO... what do you people think about it, will I be able to get the spare saddle from Fender? If I can't, is there a way to fix the screw hole in the saddle?

Sorry for the LONG post.

[202dy]

If the screw is threading into the hole about eight turns there is a high probability that the threads can be chased with a tap. Done carefully, that would re-establish the threads in the saddle.

[giacomini]

Originally Posted by 202dy

If the screw is threading into the hole about eight turns there is a high probability that the threads can be chased with a tap. Done carefully, that would re-establish the threads in the saddle.

Ok, thanks for the reply! But actually having English as my 2nd language I kinda get confused with tools' names... could you post a link to a website (stewmac?) that's got this tool that would fix the threads in the saddle? Yeah I'm dumb, I need a picture to understand...

[elgecko]

Your English is way better than my Portuguese.

Here's what he's talking about: http://products.tapcousa.com/category/standard-taps?

[bag_of_dirt]

Before you go buying tools, are you sure you know what the problem really is? If the threads are 'stripped' as you say, the screw will turn forever but the saddle will not move. In that case, chasing (i.e. reforming) the threads won't help you, because the metal isn't there anymore.

From your description, however, the screw goes in part of the way and then you can't turn it any further, yes? That sounds like a different problem, such as part of the screw has broken off inside the hole or the threads deeper in the hole have become damaged or the threads further back on the screw have become damaged (perhaps by someone forcing it with pliers? ) or someone trying to force the wrong screw (too large or wrong threads) into the hole.

It might be worth taking a closer look at the situation.

[giacomini]

Originally Posted by elgecko

Your English is way better than my Portuguese.

Here's what he's talking about: http://products.tapcousa.com/category/standard-taps?

Thanks! Now I see...

[giacomini]

Originally Posted by bag_of_dirt

Before you go buying tools, are you sure you know what the problem really is? If the threads are 'stripped' as you say, the screw will turn forever but the saddle will not move. In that case, chasing (i.e. reforming) the threads won't help you, because the metal isn't there anymore.

From your description, however, the screw goes in part of the way and then you can't turn it any further, yes? That sounds like a different problem, such as part of the screw has broken off inside the hole or the threads deeper in the hole have become damaged or the threads further back on the screw have become damaged (perhaps by someone forcing it with pliers? ) or someone trying to force the wrong screw (too large or wrong threads) into the hole.

It might be worth taking a closer look at the situation.

That in bold is what happened... I noticed that I was screwing it in kinda crooked, but I was stupid enough to keep on forcing its way in. I guess that tap will help... just gotta find the correct thread size.

[Kawai-chang]

If you re-tap it, it might fix it, or you may need to tap it out to a slightly larger screw size.

[bag_of_dirt]

I see, so it's gotten cross-threaded. Darn. The one thing I would caution about chasing the threads is that small taps have a nasty way of breaking off inside the hole if you're not being careful. Make sure it's straight to start with, go slow, back it out frequently to clear chips, and you should be fine.

One more thought, if you can't find the right tap, you could just shorten the screw a bit with hacksaw and clean up the end with a file. Best of luck.

[SurferJoe46]

Once you get the adjusting screw out (you CAN - right?) then run the tap into the adjuster from the other side, as it will likely have clean threads there, unlike the end that is now damaged.

For lube - use some 90wt gear lube for an automobile differential. Just a small drop is more than sufficient. It has ungodly metal lubrication capacity and can hold things together very well for this operation.

Run the tap by hand (with a REAL tap holder - NOT A PAIR OF PLIERS OR A CRESCENT WRENCH!!) in until it hits some resistance and they maybe 1/2 turn more --- and then completely back it out to remove any/all chips.

Repeat this as many times as necessary to clean it up.

DO NOT buy a cheap MII, MIC or MIK tap! You will regret buying one from Harbor Freight too. Get a good US HSS-Vanadium Steel tap for this job.

I've made repairs like this for years and it will go well if you go slowly and carefully.

[giacomini]

^ I'll keep all of that in mind.

Right now, the tap is the only way to go, as the reply from Fender came in my Inbox this afternoon:
------------------------------------------------------------
RE: WG: Kontaktemail‏
From: Ed Treat (etreat@fender.com)
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:45:56 PM
To: Gustavo Giacomini (gustavodgiacomini@hotmail.com)

Sadly we do not have any replacement parts for this type bridge.



Take care,

Ed Treat

Consumer Relations

Fender Musical Instruments

8860 E Chaparral Rd # 100

Scottsdale, AZ 85250

480-596-7274
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They did reply fast, thou. I emailed them last night. Sad they don't have the saddles anymore...

[giacomini]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

Once you get the adjusting screw out (you CAN - right?) then run the tap into the adjuster from the other side, as it will likely have clean threads there, unlike the end that is now damaged.

Yes, I can get the screw out, but this kind of saddle have only one side to go in (as you can see in the picture, the hole doesn't go all the way thru the front side of the saddle).

The screw goes in for 8 clean turns and stops. It is not broken inside, but those 8 turns I have "tapped" myself with the screw (very, VERY hard to screw it in...). I'm going to look for the tap this week, but I can't imagine what kind of stuff I'll have waiting for me in the hardware stores here in Brazil... Hope there's a manufacturer that uses good vanadium steel.

Then I need to measure the screw. We use metric here, but I'm guessing Schaller made it for Fender's specs, what I believe would be something in inches. Do I have to measure the groove or the top of the screw's thread? I guess the right tap will need to be the EXACT shape/size of the adjusting screw, right?

[giacomini]

Originally Posted by bag_of_dirt

One more thought, if you can't find the right tap, you could just shorten the screw a bit with hacksaw and clean up the end with a file. Best of luck.

I can see this. It would allow me a little more room to intonate the string. But what would be easier, to cut short the screw or to tap the saddle?

[bag_of_dirt]

Originally Posted by giacomini

Do I have to measure the groove or the top of the screw's thread? I guess the right tap will need to be the EXACT shape/size of the adjusting screw, right?

It does need to be exact, yes, and you need to measure the outside diameter (top of threads) as well as the pitch (threads per inch for unified or peak-to-peak distance for metric). A tool/hardware store might have a pitch gauge they can lend you if you bring the screw with you, or just pick a tap that looks close and see if the threads and diameter match.

Originally Posted by giacomini

I can see this. It would allow me a little more room to intonate the string. But what would be easier, to cut short the screw or to tap the saddle?

It shouldn't be a great amount of work either way. A problem I see with tapping from the back of the bridge saddle, as SurferJoe touched on, is that the tap might engage with the incorrect threads rather than the original threads, which means it will want to cut new threads when it reaches the section of undamaged threads. The thing to remember is that thread chasing should not require a heavy hand (the threads are already cut, you're just cleaning them up a little), so if you start to feel quite a bit of resistance when the tap gets to the undamaged part, back it out and start over to see if you can engage with the original threads.

[SurferJoe46]

I don't know the availability of parts there, but you might just take the screw to a hardware store (if they have them - is it called a "ferraria" or something like that?) and compare the screws they have there by aligning the threads to each other - physically!

I'll try my 9th grade Portuguese on ya.

9th grade was in 1961. Uhhh.

Eu não acredito que as linhas são métricas.

Vá à loja de ferragem. Teste os parafusos junto. Certifique-se que são os mesmos. Devem caber exatamente. Esta é a maneira de encontrar a linha correta do parafuso.

Agora você pode comprar a ferramenta correta.

Eu espero que você pode compreender meu português mau. Eu não posso conjugar os verbos corretamente.

Now I have a very BAD headache.

[giacomini]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I don't know the availability of parts there, but you might just take the screw to a hardware store (if they have them - is it called a "ferraria" or something like that?) and compare the screws they have there by aligning the threads to each other - physically!

I'll try my 9th grade Portuguese on ya.

9th grade was in 1961. Uhhh.

Eu não acredito que as linhas são métricas.

Vá à loja de ferragem. Teste os parafusos junto. Certifique-se que são os mesmos. Devem caber exatamente. Esta é a maneira de encontrar a linha correta do parafuso.

Agora você pode comprar a ferramenta correta.

Eu espero que você pode compreender meu português mau. Eu não posso conjugar os verbos corretamente.

Now I have a very BAD headache.

Your portuguese is much better than some exchange students' that we use to have around... My mother is a member or Rotary and we receive foreign students on a regular basis, and pretty much all of them think that the hardest aspect of portuguese is to get the verbs right...

Well, thanks for all the info, I'll get back to tell if I did it right.

[SurferJoe46]

Originally Posted by giacomini

Your portuguese is much better than some exchange students' that we use to have around... My mother is a member or Rotary and we receive foreign students on a regular basis, and pretty much all of them think that the hardest aspect of portuguese is to get the verbs right...

Well, thanks for all the info, I'll get back to tell if I did it right.

I mean - how can you go wrong now?!?

Como pode você o fazer errado agora?

[giacomini]

Just came back to say thanks to all replies.

Got the bridge fixed. Found the correct size tap and a few turns after the bridge saddle is like new!

THIS is why I love TB!

[SurferJoe46]

You are now - by the power vested in me - a full-fledged luthier.

[Eight_Stringer]

You could also have used a thread insert, ie Helicoil, or even timserts ( tooling is expensive for the later ). Any motorcyle shop will have the correct tap and inserts for a metric replacement thread. With cast aluminium stripped metric threads are common and repaired quickly ) Best guess would be M6 for the bridge. Just for future reference to anyone else. Regards.