I'm normally good with setups, but this one has perplexed me...buzz on 1 fret only

[MistaMarko]

I play a Conklin GTBD-7, and recently got the .136 set of Circle K strings. Amazing sounding strings by the way...

Anyway, before I got these strings, I had a HORRIBLE fret buzz problem on fret 14 of the high F string. Frets 13 and 15? Perfectly fine. Fret 14? Buzzing so bad you couldn't even hear a pitch. I concluded this was an issue of incorrect tension string to string (I tried to assemble my own set of individual strings and it was problematic)

Ok, so I just switched to the .136 set of balanced tension Circle K strings. The problem totally vanished, however, now it's on the 3rd fret of the low B string. Frets 2 and 4 - no buzz. Fret 3? Severe buzzing. The string is colliding with the 4th fret. When I fret the 2nd fret, it's far enough away from the 3rd fret to not buzz, but when I fret the 3rd fret, it's so close to the 4th fret that it buzzes, obviously.

I tried adding relief in the neck, helped a bit but totally jarred the feel of the strings and I hate that, so I went the opposite direction and just straightened the neck significantly and raised the overall action on all strings. Helped a bit too. Weird thing is, this only happens on fret 3 of the B string, and no other strings. I'm totally perplexed on how 1 fret on 1 string can have it's own exclusive issue. I just don't see how I can resolve this. Any ideas? I've pretty much ruled out the bass since on previous string sets I didn't have this issue. I just think it may be a minor setup issue I'm overlooking.

[JasonLamb]

sounds like a high fret

[MistaMarko]

What do you recommend I do? I don't feel like taking it to a shop and getting overcharged for something simple. Is this something that can be alleviated by myself?

[202dy]

Fret 15 (most likely) or F-16 is high. The remedy is spot dressing the high fret. First straighten the neck dead straight. A short precision straight edge is used to determine the problem fret by rocking it across three frets, i.e. F-14,15, and 16 or F-15,16 and 17. Then a short file is used to level the high fret to the proper height. The fret is crowned with another file and polished. When finished the guitar is again set up to player specifications.

This is a task only for the seriously handy. If you have to look in kitchen drawers to find your tools, think changing a tire is working on your car, or think a sixteenth of an inch is pretty darn small this is not a job you should undertake.

As an aside, why is that the default opinion is that a shop will overcharge for their services? Professional repair people invest thousands of dollars on specialty tools that are useless to other trades. (Good tools to perform a spot dressing quickly and correctly cost about $150.00USD.) They spend years learning and honing their craft that is only used by a small group of people. They have overhead, advertising, rent, and other expenses. This is to say nothing of training apprentice craftsmen and handling phone calls and making estimates for folks, all time that is not billable. All this while trying to get to the end of every day with all ten fingers attached. Sound like a gang of thieves or dedicated professionals?

[mongo2]

It could be the high fret just needs to be reseated.

I've done that much more often than dressing the high fret, in fact, it happens so often it's the first thing I try on a high fret.

[XylemBassGuitar]

Do you have another B string lying around? Sometimes, especially with thicker strings, small imperfections/dents in a string can cause fret buzz at just one fret like that. Try switching out the B string for another one just to see.

Otherwise, you should probably take the instrument to a luthier/tech for a fret check and/or setup. Learning to do your fret work from a few posts on a forum is a recipe for a bad fret job and can potentially cost you a lot more in the long run.

I agree with 202dy, a decent tech/luthier should only charge in the neighborhood of $150 for a partial or full fret level. And, once your frets are level, you should be able to get your action very low.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by MistaMarko

What do you recommend I do? I don't feel like taking it to a shop and getting overcharged for something simple. Is this something that can be alleviated by myself?

What's your definition of, "overcharged", and, "something simple"?

[GeoffByrne]

What you have ther is either a low 3rd fret or a wonky B string - as suggested, try another string before anything else.

[MistaMarko]

Originally Posted by 202dy

As an aside, why is that the default opinion is that a shop will overcharge for their services? Professional repair people invest thousands of dollars on specialty tools that are useless to other trades. (Good tools to perform a spot dressing quickly and correctly cost about $150.00USD.) They spend years learning and honing their craft that is only used by a small group of people. They have overhead, advertising, rent, and other expenses. This is to say nothing of training apprentice craftsmen and handling phone calls and making estimates for folks, all time that is not billable. All this while trying to get to the end of every day with all ten fingers attached. Sound like a gang of thieves or dedicated professionals?

I didn't intend for that statement to be insulting to the sheer precision and technique required to perform such a job -- merely stating my ignorance toward whether or not really this was a simple job or something that was much more in-depth. As I said, I'm normally good with setups but fret leveling and all of that is totally off the radar for me. I've read for things like widening a nut slot, it was something that could easily be done at home...didn't know if this was the same thing.

And, yeah, they do overcharge a bit. There is only one local guitar shop and I was employed there for 6 months for an internship thing in high school. I'm sure everything you says applies but they're known locally for being a bit heavy on the prices with things. The owner is about as far away from Earth as you can get and literally told me he will mark super high and overcharge because he can and if someone has a problem with it, sucks for them. So...that's what I'm getting at, lol. And, they still get a ton of business.

To everyone else -- again -- my last set of strings I didn't have this problem with and the B on the last set was .135. I'm using a .136 now with a different set and am having a buzzing issue that's pretty substantial. Would .001 of a difference really be the culprit here?...

[JLS]

If the previous set weren't tapered core, which that .136 CK is, and the bridge wasn't adjusted to take into account the fact that the new string would be, de facto, closer to the fingerboard...

You may have a slightly high/low fret there, which straightening the neck, would make more apparent. Go back to a little more relief, and adjust the saddles. Remember that with a tapered core, the action may feel higher, though the distance from the bottom of the string, to the frets, is the deciding factor.

Does this make sense? I mention this because I recently put a set of CK .150 on a 5 string, and had to adjust the B & E saddles significantly.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by MistaMarko

What do you recommend I do? I don't feel like taking it to a shop and getting overcharged for something simple. Is this something that can be alleviated by myself?

They're your words.
It doesn't matter how simple or complex the job is. Overcharging is overcharging and according to your statements, you will be overcharged for a repair no matter what. Or will you? The local merchant is charging what the market will bear. Is that overcharging or simply responding to the reality of the local market? If business is brisk, he is pricing it right.

Originally Posted by MistaMarko

I didn't intend for that statement to be insulting to the sheer precision and technique required to perform such a job -- merely stating my ignorance toward whether or not really this was a simple job or something that was much more in-depth. As I said, I'm normally good with setups but fret leveling and all of that is totally off the radar for me. I've read for things like widening a nut slot, it was something that could easily be done at home...didn't know if this was the same thing.

And, yeah, they do overcharge a bit. There is only one local guitar shop and I was employed there for 6 months for an internship thing in high school. I'm sure everything you says applies but they're known locally for being a bit heavy on the prices with things. The owner is about as far away from Earth as you can get and literally told me he will mark super high and overcharge because he can and if someone has a problem with it, sucks for them. So...that's what I'm getting at, lol. And, they still get a ton of business.

Small town music stores that do not keep their prices higher will be out of business in short order. They pay more for the products they sell because the do not achieve the volume discounts. There are not enough people in the area to buy enough things to earn a larger discount from the manufacturers. They cannot survive on less margin than the larger store in the large city. So they sell the products for more. Anything they can do to bring up the bottom line is a good thing because it keeps them in business. Or they can go out of business and the local area looses a valuable resource.

So what are the options? There is always another store. Of course, it's probably in the next town over. Fuel costs being what they are probably negate any savings. You could learn to do fretwork yourself. But there is the cost of a good book, maybe some videos, or at the very least some "yard sale specials" on which to practice. You could even ship the instrument to a famous out of town luthier. That means paying for shipping both ways. It's also a pretty good be that they will charge even more than the local guy you enjoy maligning.

All of these options probably cost more than what you'll pay the local craftsman.

To everyone else -- again -- my last set of strings I didn't have this problem with and the B on the last set was .135. I'm using a .136 now with a different set and am having a buzzing issue that's pretty substantial. Would .001 of a difference really be the culprit here?...

Fret work is a game of thousandths. One thousandth of an inch may mean buzzing. Or not. It depends on string heights, fingerboard radius, saddle radius, neck tilt, and relief. In other words, the geometry of the instrument and the adjustments made to it. Remember tolerances for strings can easily be +/- .002". Add to it that sometimes they are not perfectly round. So if the .135 was .133 and the .136 is .138, the difference is .005". That is significant. So is the effect of wear on the string which can change roundness and local diameter. All of this not to mention the difference between regular and taper core strings.

There are many things to consider. When working in thousandths of an inch, it is best to see and measure the instrument. If you have the tools and the experience you can compile the data and make the decisions. If not, professional help is available.

[MistaMarko]

I mean, thanks for the microeconomics lesson and all, but I don't know what you're trying to instill in me. I understand all of that and sure, probably after a ton of number crunching it would be more cost efficient to go them. Do you take your instrument to a shop to have the truss rod adjusted? There can be detrimental consequences to doing so. No, you don't, you do it yourself because with a little bit knowledge and care, you can do it yourself. I was unsure of whether or not this same ideal applied to fret leveling. I'm unaware of the complex and risky nature of it. And, this guitar shop charges $25 for a string change on a guitar. I mean, yeah, people pay for that, but please tell me how your argument relating distant economical factors supports paying for a string change because it really wasn't initially any different in my mind. I literally have no idea what goes into fret work. My. apologies. On a serious note, thanks for the help with the rest. I do figure thousandths would be in the equation, which is irritating. Will probably have to seek professional help as I have no tools to even check that.

Originally Posted by JLS

If the previous set weren't tapered core, which that .136 CK is, and the bridge wasn't adjusted to take into account the fact that the new string would be, de facto, closer to the fingerboard...

You may have a slightly high/low fret there, which straightening the neck, would make more apparent. Go back to a little more relief, and adjust the saddles. Remember that with a tapered core, the action may feel higher, though the distance from the bottom of the string, to the frets, is the deciding factor.

Does this make sense? I mention this because I recently put a set of CK .150 on a 5 string, and had to adjust the B & E saddles significantly.

DING DING DING

I didn't even think about that. Yes, the last set was not tapered and these are. Oh wow. Well, I'm hesitant to add relief. I spent some time screwing with it and it's to the point where the buzzing, while still boldly present, hardly comes through the amp at all (playing through headphones for a true indicator) and the sustain seems fine. I would like to alleviate it but adding even a smudge of relief I'm worried will throw the feel off again. Is there a way to add relief without sacrificing feel? I never really knew the shortcuts with that stuff.

[JLS]

Don't be. It's an adjustable trussrod--what you giveth, you can taketh away.

[MistaMarko]

Oh yeah, I know, I just hate how the feel is totally changed with the slightest adjustment. I've never been able to find a way to get both when adding relief.

[steelhead2]

recent purchase of a fretted'j' SX and of course it wasn't set up the way i like it,,so after shimming neck and backing off the truss rod i had a buzz second fret e string;the thing fooled me!,,just a bit more backing off the truss rod fixed it.

(seems the truss rod even tho' functions smoother than my MIM Fenders arcs in a dif way(section of the neck/closer to the headstock),so i'd take a bit more on the truss rod if you' re close just to see,because,once you sand a fret that metal is gone,320 sandpaper followed by 1000 works fine.,,that's all i know i'm not recomending anything

[MistaMarko]

My bass has the dual truss system, I believe they intersect like an 'X'? -- Should I put relief in both or just one? What would you guys recommend? I'll try this later.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by MistaMarko

My bass has the dual truss system, I believe they intersect like an 'X'? -- Should I put relief in both or just one? What would you guys recommend? I'll try this later.

The truss rods are in parallel channels. Or they are in channels that parallel the neck taper. They do not meet.

Dual truss rods are useful in adjusting each side of the neck. However, there can be some interaction. That may require dialing in both rods to achieve perfect relief for your set up. That can be frustrating for the novice.

[Wescottguitar]

The issue could just as easily be a LOW fret. A single high fret is easily dealt with, a single LOW fret is a little more work to deal with properly.