Intonation on low B string.

[WarrenD]

Hi there Chaps/Chapettes,

This is regarding my Yamaha RBX 1998 bass. I've had it just over a year and realised I haven't fixed the intonation on it.

The first four strings EADG were easily altered now the 12th fret notes match the harmonic.

However, the fifth string is a nightmare! The 12th fret note is about 20 cents sharp of the harmonic. I've altered the saddle height in both directions (because lowering it, as I did firstly, didn't work) but to no avail. I get the same reading regardless of how much the saddle height has been altered.

I read a little while ago on Youtube of someone else with this problem.

Can anyone help? What should I do?

Some facts:

-String gauge: 125.
-Bass tuned one step down (ADGCF).
-Tension medium, action medium.

Cheers.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by WarrenD

Hi there Chaps/Chapettes,

This is regarding my Yamaha RBX 1998 bass. I've had it just over a year and realised I haven't fixed the intonation on it.

The first four strings EADG were easily altered now the 12th fret notes match the harmonic.

However, the fifth string is a nightmare! The 12th fret note is about 20 cents sharp of the harmonic. I've altered the saddle height in both directions (because lowering it, as I did firstly, didn't work) but to no avail. I get the same reading regardless of how much the saddle height has been altered.

I read a little while ago on Youtube of someone else with this problem.

Can anyone help? What should I do?

Some facts:

-String gauge: 125.
-Bass tuned one step down (ADGCF).
-Tension medium, action medium.

Cheers.

I'll assume:

*The B string saddle has been drawn back as far as possible.

*You've set your witness points correctly (both bridge and nut).

Using a conventional or tapered B string?

Riis

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

I'll assume:

*The B string saddle has been drawn back as far as possible.

*You've set your witness points correctly (both bridge and nut).

Using a conventional or tapered B string?

Riis

^+1 on all counts.

By "moving the saddle up and down" I also assume that You mean back and forth in relation with the nut/12th fret, whatever you may view as the reference point.

Regards
Sam

[WarrenD]

Hi Riis,

Yes, the saddle has been drawn back as it can comfortably go (about half an inch remaining)....

Bridge and nut set correctly.

Conventional string (at least I think so!) Nickel, round wound.

Hope this helps.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by WarrenD

Hi Riis,

Yes, the saddle has been drawn back as it can comfortably go (about half an inch remaining)....

Bridge and nut set correctly.

Conventional string (at least I think so!) Nickel, round wound.

Hope this helps.

Okay, let's monkey with one thing at a time. I'm a big fan of re-checking certain parameters:

*Press down firmly on the B string just at the leading edge of the bridge saddle. B strings are notorious for being stubborn and unyielding. Do the same on the fingerboard side of the nut. Any improvement? If no...

*Retract the B saddle the remaining 1/2" and reset your witness points as above. If still no improvement....

*Consider switching to a tapered B string which, by virtue of design, should intonate well ahead of the E string saddle.

Riis

[WarrenD]

Thanks, this is great advice!

I tried point 1 and there's been a significant improvement.

20 cents sharp on the 12th fret has become about 7, which satisfies me as I rarely use the B string above the 5th fret.

What have I done exactly? Is this a way of 'easing' the string into its new saddle setting?

Thanks.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by WarrenD

Thanks, this is great advice!

I tried point 1 and there's been a significant improvement.

20 cents sharp on the 12th fret has become about 7, which satisfies me as I rarely use the B string above the 5th fret.

What have I done exactly? Is this a way of 'easing' the string into its new saddle setting?

Thanks.

Strings need to see a clean break or "witness point" as they pass either the bridge saddle or nut. As a result, you'll see cleaner intonation up and down the fretboard. As you've noticed, each string becomes a little more stubborn as the diameter & stiffness increases. In your words, you've "eased" the string into proper position albeit with a great deal of downward force. You can now tweak the intonation via step #2 but remember to reset the witness point.

Note to all: you're better off starting flat and moving the bridge saddle forward during the intonation process. Any previously set witness points will fall behind the bridge saddle and not interfere with the vibrating length of the string.

Riis

[JLS]

Note to all: you're better off starting flat and moving the bridge saddle forward during the intonation process. Any previously set witness points will fall behind the bridge saddle and not interfere with the vibrating length of the string.

An excellent tip!

B strings can be quite uncooperative. I don't expect much from them, above F7 or so, I figure any decent note above that, is gravy...

[srayb]

You say you use a .125 and tune it down a step to low A... maybe that is the problem? Might get better intonation if you get a thicker string for it (.135+)? Just a thought...

[lowendfriend]

what's the scale on that yammie? .125 is a light gauge for tuning down to A even on a 34" scale.

Move up to a fatter B and you may have better luck. Be very careful on installing the B that you don't twist it. Also, if you are wrapping full gauge string around the tuning post (as opposed to the upper taper put there for the tuning post) that can impart weirdness to the intonation setup. You may be using XL's and you don't need them. You've never mentioned scale that I can see.

[kosmicwizard]

This thread shreds! Subed!

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by WarrenD

Hi there Chaps/Chapettes,

This is regarding my Yamaha RBX 1998 bass. I've had it just over a year and realised I haven't fixed the intonation on it.

The first four strings EADG were easily altered now the 12th fret notes match the harmonic.

However, the fifth string is a nightmare! The 12th fret note is about 20 cents sharp of the harmonic. I've altered the saddle height in both directions (because lowering it, as I did firstly, didn't work) but to no avail. I get the same reading regardless of how much the saddle height has been altered.

I read a little while ago on Youtube of someone else with this problem.

Can anyone help? What should I do?

Some facts:

-String gauge: 125.
-Bass tuned one step down (ADGCF).
-Tension medium, action medium.

Cheers.

You can move the bridge or replace the bridge. Also if you are tuning to ADGCF then try heavier strings.

[mech]

If you need more adjustment toward the butt of the bass, you can remove the spring that's on the intonation screw. It does nothing but hold the saddle in place while the string is changed.

mech

[lowfreqgeek]

Originally Posted by mech

If you need more adjustment toward the butt of the bass, you can remove the spring that's on the intonation screw. It does nothing but hold the saddle in place while the string is changed.

mech

I've been known to use a shorter screw on saddles that didn't go far enough back because the screw bottomed out inside the saddle piece.

[WarrenD]

If I used a 130+ gauge B string I'd be worried about it fitting into the nut groove properly.

Ideally I'd use gauges 45-65-85-105-125 for ADGCF. However, it sees to me only Dunlop make 5-string sets with such gradations (somewhat expensive) therefore I'm using Elites (40-60-80-100-125) which is quite a low gauge for tuning a step down.

This Yamaha seems quite intolerant of tension. I have a Warwick Streamer and Fender Precision also, and they appear more able to withstand it.

Anyway, thanks for this advice. This all seems quite helpful.