Intonation problem on my fretless

[funkalicious101]

i have come to the conclusion that i much be doing something horribly wrong. the only way i can get "acceptable" intonation by the 19th fret is if the action is too low so that there is buzzing at almost every position (didnt even know it was possible on a fretless)

i've been trying different combinations of action hight and saddle position and nothing seems to work.

is there something wrong with my technique or my bass?

[ehque]

if its a fretless... your intonation should be perfect, shouldn't it?

playing directly on the fretlines?

[Moose308]

THere may or may not be something wrong with the bass. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head would be "Is the fretboard level, or has the string gouged out a pit?"

As well, you might consider checking the strings. It's not unheard of to have a defective, or worn, or otherwise "kinked" string. It takes very little misalignment to cause headaches.

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by funkalicious101

i have come to the conclusion that i much be doing something horribly wrong. the only way i can get "acceptable" intonation by the 19th fret is if the action is too low so that there is buzzing at almost every position (didnt even know it was possible on a fretless)

i've been trying different combinations of action hight and saddle position and nothing seems to work.

is there something wrong with my technique or my bass?

The only way the intonation can be out on a fretless is if you are noting the string in the wrong position.

Technically, there is no such thing as "intonation" adjustments on a fretless instrument. The only thing that you are changing with the saddle string length adjustments is the scale length. Intonation is completely determined by finger position.

The lines on a lined fretless are useless except for a rough estimate of the proper position because the witness point is hidden by your finger, The witness point actually changes according to the amount of pressure that is applied to the note because the pad on your finger widens and narrows with any pressure change.

Fretless is much more difficult to learn than fretted because you must train your ear to hear when the notes are in tune or not.

[funkalicious101]

its unlined (why did i do that to myself?) but when i play on the marker(where the fret is) is usually off.

is it unreasonable for me to just want to play where the fets should be? rather than have to compensate while im playing?

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by funkalicious101

its unlined (why did i do that to myself?) but when i play on the marker(where the fret is) is usually off.

is it unreasonable for me to just want to play where the fets should be? rather than have to compensate while im playing?

No it's not unreasonable to want to play it visually, but it's not going to happen. You simply can't play a fretless instrument visually with very much accuracy.

[funkalicious101]

ugh, i dont think fretless is for me. i loved this bass for some reason the first couple months but now i cant play it for more than five minutes without getting fed up with it.

if this is the case for all of them aswell, then what is the point of lined fretless instruments?

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by funkalicious101

ugh, i dont think fretless is for me. i loved this bass for some reason the first couple months but now i cant play it for more than five minutes without getting fed up with it.

if this is the case for all of them aswell, then what is the point of lined fretless instruments?

Well, if the frets have just been pulled from a fretted neck, or filler strips put in instead of frets, they do nothing more than fill the fret slots.

On an upright bass, it's considered the mark of a beginning player to mark positions on the fret board. Same with violin.

Some methods of teaching recommend marking the fifth position temporarily with a bit of tape, just as a reference, but all recommend removing the marker as quickly as possible, to avoid creating a crutch.

As I said, the learning curve is much steeper on fretless, but if you stick it out, it's also very rewarding. A big plus is that the ear training can be carried over to the double bass and I promise you that on bass fiddle your playing opportunities and earning potential will multiply greatly.

[Baleen]

Don't give up! It'll come. There's just some more (and increasingly accurate) muscle memory and ear sensitivity to absorb.

By all means, set up the instrument!

If you have any doubts about an action/intonation setup, take it in to a shop. It's important that you are learning on a good setup. It is important you have the strings intonated so they are at least consistent with each other. And also so you come to an understanding of how it is setup regarding the markers, e.g. is it set so you press before the marker, like with a fret, or is it set so you press right on the marker, etc. Discuss with the tech how you want it set up.

Practice - with a tuner even, until you get comfortable.

Remember if you're sighting positions from markers, you will be deceived on lower positions more as you move to higher strings because of your angle. For example, the 5th position marker on the E string will look about right, but if you sight the marker on the G string you'll be very flat unless you correct for the angle. Place you finger at the 5th position on the G (should be a C), then pull the bass towards you so are looking straight down what would be the 5th fret. Check your position.

Take your time and enjoy it. Fretless is great. And you can't beat the look of an unlined fretless neck!

[funkalicious101]

yeah, ill try taking it into a shop. i think i need to switch out the pickups aswell, those passive barts just arent cutting it for me (i have some stocks from my geddy lee, maybe those?).

but it gets off pitch as much a half step at some places, if it were a few cents i wouldnt have been bothered by it so much.

[Baleen]

If all else is right and it's that far off, like it was suggested earlier, try new stings. I've had a few bad strings that exhibited intonation problems. Rounds and flats.

Best of luck.