Intonation problems on a jazz parts bass

[Queg]

Hi folks,

I've got a Hipshot A bridge on a Fender Geddy Lee body, using a 21 fret Warmoth neck.

My intonation is making me bring all the saddles out to the limit, most are just a hair flat, but the "G" string is still badly off. This bass is tuned down to D, with Labella 760FM flatwounds.

Should I:
1. Try a different G string.
2. Try a different bridge (such as a stock Badass II)
3. Resign myself to the fact that this sort of thing can happen when building a parts bass.

[OldDog52]

Originally Posted by Queg

My intonation is making me bring all the saddles out to the limit, most are just a hair flat, but the "G" string is still badly off.

Are the saddles moved all the way toward the neck, or away from the neck? If the notes are flat, aren't the saddles too far out away from the neck (strings too long)?

[testing1two]

The problem is that you have a 21 fret neck on a body designed for a 20 fret neck. This means your saddles have to shift forward significantly to compensate. You can move the bridge 1/2" closer to the neck pocket to compensate but that will totally mess with the pickup spacing which will mess with the sound.

[Queg]

"Out" as in fully extend towards the neck. Photo added for clarification.

[Queg]

Originally Posted by testing1two

The problem is that you have a 21 fret neck on a body designed for a 20 fret neck. This means your saddles have to shift forward significantly to compensate.

Ah, but of course. Clearly I didn't think it through.

[synaesthesia]

Originally Posted by testing1two

The problem is that you have a 21 fret neck on a body designed for a 20 fret neck. This means your saddles have to shift forward significantly to compensate. You can move the bridge 1/2" closer to the neck pocket to compensate but that will totally mess with the pickup spacing which will mess with the sound.

It doesn't matter how many frets you have is the scale length remains the same.

[testing1two]

Originally Posted by synaesthesia

It doesn't matter how many frets you have is the scale length remains the same.

Exactly right. But a 21 fret neck is at least 1/2" longer than a 20 fret neck (unless the 21st fret hangs over the heel of the neck).

[testing1two]

After looking at Warmoth's site it appears their 21 fret necks are designed to work on standard bodies (meaning the 21st fret hangs over the heel). I would grab a tape measure and check that your scale length is 34" and that your bridge is located correctly.

[ia02]

Originally Posted by testing1two

Exactly right. But a 21 fret neck is at least 1/2" longer than a 20 fret neck (unless the 21st fret hangs over the heel of the neck).

Which it does on a Warmoth neck...

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by testing1two

You can move the bridge 1/2" closer to the neck pocket to compensate but that will totally mess with the pickup spacing which will mess with the sound.

Adjusting intonation will always adjust the exact pickup location with regard to a string's nodes. However, this change is will not mess with pickup spacing or sound (the difference it makes will be negligible and you wont hear a tonal difference, only an in-tune difference).

Think about it carefully. By moving the bridge forward a 1/2", all of his saddles will be moving back about a half inch. The speaking length of the string will still be roughly 34", the saddle location will still be in roughly the same spot, and his strings will still not be intonated correctly, but he will gain the ability to properly intonate them all.

[Queg]

I installed the Hipshot using the same pre-existing holes as the previous Badass II. The Warmoth neck, as others confirmed, is indeed made to work wiith a standard 34" Fender Jazz bass, with the 21st fret overlapping. All this suggests that either the Hipshot bridge has different geometry than a Badass II (which it shouldn't, as it's supposed to be a Fender replacement), or??

Should I redrill/move the bridge up a 1/2"?

[Queg]

To answer my own question:

A Baddass II is actually longer and has more (thread) room to adjust intonation. Hipshot A is shorter and might run out of thread/platform when adjusting for flat intonation if it was installed in original (Badass II) bridge holes on the GL body.

Corrections?

[FunkMetalBass]

That was my guess - that the hole placement of the Hipshot has caused the bridge to sit further back than the Fender.

Moving it up a half inch is the only real option.

[Nino Valenti]

Originally Posted by Queg

Should I redrill/move the bridge up a 1/2"?

Yes.

[Steveaux]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

That was my guess - that the hole placement of the Hipshot has caused the bridge to sit further back than the Fender.

Moving it up a half inch is the only real option.

^^^^^^^^^^^

I was going say 3/8", but, honestly thought 1/2".

That bridge looks DEEEEEEP.

[Marty Forrer]

Originally Posted by Nino Valenti

Yes.

+1.

[staindbass]

its because you tune down to D. i have had a few basses i had to move the bridge closer a 1/4 inch because of the same problem. measure from where your saddle is now, and determine where you want it to sit. thats how far forward to move the holes. johnny a.

[RhinoBass]

I suggest going out and getting a new BAII bridge before going and drilling new holesin your bass.

[Queg]

Thanks all!

A full pic of this mongrel:
No pots yet, just a pickup switch & jack to fire it up/test it out. The cheapy chinese control plate doesn't even fit standard size pots.. a proper (but black!) control plate is on order. Pickups are Nordstrand N4SE's in disguise.

[Queg]

Originally Posted by RhinoBass

I suggest going out and getting a new BAII bridge before going and drilling new holesin your bass.

Hm.
A Badass II in black = $115
Fender Geddy Lee body = $150

So I should pay another 80% of the body price just to avoid drilling 3 holes?