Intonation Question --- Is it possibly to have a perfectly in-tune guitar?

[MistaMarko]

I spent all afternoon today setting up my bass because I just got some new strings...and after adjusting each string's intonation and tuning each string properly, I managed to get the 12th fret and 24th fret + the harmonics for the 12th and 24th fret PERFECTLY in tune except the 24th fret on the D is a tad flat and the 24th fret on the B is about 15 cents sharp.

That's about as good as I could get it..is it possible to be 100% in-tune?

[bongomania]

No. Frets are an inherently flawed system- they will always get you close, but will always be "off" by just a bit at some point along the neck. The only ways around that are (a) fretless or (b) some crazy systems I've seen where each string has its own independent set of frets.

[funkydanbass]

Well we have to define perfect!! The system of tuning we use; equal temperament is inherently imperfect. Speak to any piano tuner. Piano's are tuned flat in the bass and sharp in the treble so as to sound in tune when playing through many keys.

The older system of Just Intonation, I believe was more 'perfect' but did not allow for modulation. That is to say that the music sounded wrong or out of tune when playing in keys outside of what the instrument was tuned to.

It comes down to the fact that our method of dividing the octave into 12 intervals is flawed. The intervals are not perfectly divided an thus unstable. It becomes more complicated when you facter in the harmonic series and how harmony relates to each other.

Some guitar techs at a workshop in Melbourne have a fretted guitar tuned to just intonation. Every fret on every string is in a slightly different position. And whilst the instrument is as close to being mathematically in tune as possible. It is next to impossible to play, AND sounds terrible with any instrument tuned to equal temperament!!

[Marcus Willett]

Originally Posted by MistaMarko

is it possible to be 100% in-tune?

With equal tempered scales, no. With frets? In one-key-only; possible but not for anything more than that one key.

So, no you can't. Take heart in that nothing is ever 100% in tune anyway and even a perfectly in-tune even-tempered major third is off around 13 cents (sharp) versus a "true" third anyway.

[Mrdak]

Using this system is going to get you about as close as you can get http://www.buzzfeiten.com/

[seventhson]

actually, this will get you closer...steve vai is now an endorser...

http://www.truetemperament.com/main.php

[Pilgrim]

The relevant question is whether it matters. IMO absolutely perfect pitch only matters to those who have absolutely perfect ears, played on an instrument solo, with no other instruments or environmental noises to distract the listener. Also, finger placement must be 100% accurate, never too far below the fret, and never over the fret.

In other words, it's probably not possible, but it probably doesn't matter.

[Eric Perry]

Originally Posted by seventhson

...truetemperament...

***???

[Mrdak]

Yikes! ~~~

[bongomania]

That's what I meant about each string having its own set of frets. Those frets look "squiggly", but at the point where they meet each string, they are in correct alignment for "accurate" intonation along the length of the string. Supposedly.

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by Eric618

***???

That looks to be from the Salvador Dali school of luthiery.